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Author Topic: Recap Steelers Draft 07  (Read 7980 times)
give'emthaboot
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« Reply #50 on: Apr 30, 2007 at 21:31 »

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1.  Staying in a 3-4 and not tinkering with a 4-3 Tampa 2. So many other picks could have indicated 4-3.  Branch, Carriker, Moss.
yeah i was thinking the same thing and didnt notice anyone else here say it.  we all just assumed the 4-3 was coming, and i dont think these picks necessarily mean that.  both the first two picks are guys that can play both schemes.  

it obviously could swing either way, i just think the Tampa 2 switchover most of us were expecting might not be taking place after all, atleast not nearly as soon as we thought.  that tells us one of two things: 1. Tomlin excepts LeBeau to be around a while or 2. Tomlin isnt hell-bent on this scheme and meant what he said when he said the scheme is dictated by the players and not vice versa.  either way, i like it.
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« Reply #51 on: Apr 30, 2007 at 21:42 »

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it obviously could swing either way, i just think the Tampa 2 switchover most of us were expecting might not be taking place after all, atleast not nearly as soon as we thought.  that tells us one of two things: 1. Tomlin excepts LeBeau to be around a while or 2. Tomlin isnt hell-bent on this scheme and meant what he said when he said the scheme is dictated by the players and not vice versa.  either way, i like it.
I can roll with that.  It's clear by comments from the D coaching staff that this thang ain't going to 4-3/2 next season.  Hell, it even seems clear to this amateaur watcher of the NFL that as long as Boss LeBeau is around, Tomlin will be happy to have him run whatever effing defense he sees fit.  They drafted some football players over the weekend.  As the coach said, the 1st rounder defies scheme while the 2nd rounder just relentlessly rushes the passer and has already played OLB.  If not a value pick, Timmons was damn sure a versatile one.  

I can't wait for the season to start.  

P.S.  People should quit bitching about the 3rd Rd TE and the 4th Rd P.  Get the fuck over it and get on board.
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« Reply #52 on: Apr 30, 2007 at 22:34 »

I was confused by the Spaeth pick as well, but I look at it a couple of ways:

As has been mentioned here, this will free Heath up for more passing routes, either coming off the line or in the slot, while we can still have 6-7 effective blockers.  Hopefully decreases the blind side hits for Ben.

I remember somewhere, reaching through the fog, that Simmons and Starks had trouble on doubleteams because of their height difference.  Hopefully, the 6-7 Starks and Spaeth can combine for some serious road grading for FWP.  Not to mention it will be tough for the LBs to find Parker when they have to try to look past those two.

If he catches more than 12 passes this year, I'll be surprised.  If he and Heat combine for 60 catches and 8-10 TDs, I'll be good with that (that would be about 3 per game for Miller to go with the dozen or so total for Spaeth - not too much to ask.).
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« Reply #53 on: May 01, 2007 at 09:18 »

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I think it was unexpected but I absolutely love the pick of the TE.  The guy looks great.  He doesn't look as much like a pass catcher as Heath does but damn he looks like a fine blocker.  With a two TE set, I don't see the Steelers having any trouble getting run over and missing blitzes like they did against Baltimore this year.  Whichever side doesn't get the blitz runs a pattern. It's also going to pay dividends in Parker's runs.  The tackle can seal the line and the TE opens the hole on either side.



And... unlike many other people, I didn't see a backup RB as a need.
Ok, Ok. I like that suggestion. A lot.

I remember, back in Ben's rookie playoff AFCC game against the Patriots, that I lobbied for us to run a 2 TE, single back (Bettis) no-huddle offense.

I figured, max protect on passing downs, extra meat on running downs. Stop Belichek from substituting, tire Brushci and company down. Run the ball down their throats. Didn't happen.

Now, if the staff intends to actually USE this guy, early and often, in a 2 TE set?
Then I'm fine with the pick. I believe I hedged Heat's pick in a similiar way..ie, if they are willing to start PASSING to the TE, then I was fine with it.

Well, except for some playoff games that led to a, oh, championship, the team hasn't delivered on that promise. Heath is rarely out running routes, and even more rarely getting passes thrown his way (unless double-covered in the end zone).

So, I'll stop bitching, until I see that we have no plans to run (frequently) a 2 or 3 TE set.
..Oh, and if I see  THAT WORTHLESS BUM TUMAN still getting spot work in the offense in 2007,  I WILL be bitching. Right here. COUNT ON IT...
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« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2007 at 11:45 »

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Arians said as much on Saturday. He'd like to use Miller in the slot. This ain't gonna be the same old Stiller offense IMO. He even mentioned using 3 TE sets. And nobody thinks a 6'7" TE will be useful in the redzone? How about on 3rd and 3?

excellent point, but i would be more interested with Spaeth in an H back role.  Kreider is getting up there in age and with Ariens wanting to use multiple WR and TE formations there will be limited playing time for danny.  which would make him very expendable.  I would love having a 6'7 giant paving the way for FWP on 2nd/3rd and short.
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« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2007 at 19:41 »

P.S. People should quit bitching about the 3rd Rd TE and the 4th Rd P. Get the fuck over it and get on board.


My following comments may start a colossal shitstorm of epic proportions.  I hope they don't.  Here we go.


Comments like this remind me why I don't post on the Steelers part of this website very often.  There's no doubt that you all totally know your stuff, probably moreso than any other Steelers board out there.

But the collective groupthink that reverberates through here most of the time makes it difficult to have a serious debate if one feels differently than the majority.  From my observation, the pattern seems to go something like this:

1.  Issue arises with the Steelers.

2.  Posters here debate it out, arguing different viewpoints.

3.  One opinion wins out either due to the sheer volume of posters that embrace it, or the advocacy of a smaller handful of respected individuals.

4.  That opinion- usually following partisan Steelers' front office lines- is accepted as the overall opinion of the board, and people that disagree usually get hammered pretty good if they bring it back up.


In this case, there was a large amount of outrage when the picks were initially made.  Soon however, the viewpoint that the Steelers front office must know what they're doing, because they are a solid organization was embraced, and so people rationalized the picks (which they lambasted a day or two before) to fit this viewpoint.  

And so now, only 2-3 days later, anyone disagreeing needs to "get the fuck over it and get on board."

Frankly, I think people are within reason to question these moves for two major reasons:


1.  The last few Steelers' drafts have followed a very similar pattern- solid 1st round pick, followed by a series of questionable picks, the majority of which did not say with the team for long.

2.  We have yet to see how any of these players- or the ones we could've picked instead- perform at an NFL level.  Maybe in a year we'll see that the front office knew what they were doing after all, or maybe we'll see that the people that questioned the draft were right all along.  But to pressure people into making that call already isn't fair.


I'm probably going to get myself branded for making such a post, especially when I don't post on this particular part of the board very often, but I'm doing so in part to explain why I don't.  Oh well.  Here we go.


.WiH.


 
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« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2007 at 20:37 »

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Frankly, I think people are within reason to question these moves for two major reasons:


1.  The last few Steelers' drafts have followed a very similar pattern- solid 1st round pick, followed by a series of questionable picks, the majority of which did not say with the team for long.

2.  We have yet to see how any of these players- or the ones we could've picked instead- perform at an NFL level.  Maybe in a year we'll see that the front office knew what they were doing after all, or maybe we'll see that the people that questioned the draft were right all along.  But to pressure people into making that call already isn't fair.
 
Most of us have issues with the draft.  I hate the Timmons pick, and I hate the Spaeth pick.  You hate the Sepulveda pick, others don't like the fact that no real serviceable lineman was chosen.

Where you get this idea about there being a consensus that follows the party line or whatever is beyond me.  
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« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2007 at 20:39 »

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Quote



Frankly, I think people are within reason to question these moves for two major reasons:


1.  The last few Steelers' drafts have followed a very similar pattern- solid 1st round pick, followed by a series of questionable picks, the majority of which did not say with the team for long.

2.  We have yet to see how any of these players- or the ones we could've picked instead- perform at an NFL level.  Maybe in a year we'll see that the front office knew what they were doing after all, or maybe we'll see that the people that questioned the draft were right all along.  But to pressure people into making that call already isn't fair.
 
Most of us have issues with the draft.  I hate the Timmons pick, and I hate the Spaeth pick.  You hate the Sepulveda pick, others don't like the fact that no real serviceable lineman was chosen.

Where you get this idea about there being a consensus that follows the party line or whatever is beyond me.
 :sheep1:  :sheep2:  :sheep1:  
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« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2007 at 21:01 »

I'm certainly guilty of beating an issue until people give in out of sheer boredom or ignore it just so I STFU.  

I'm an outlaw.  

Feel better about the Timmons pick due to the Woodley pick afterwards.  Don't see Timmons, from his one year as a starter at FSU, having the size or pass rush skills to play 34 OLB.  Selecting Woodley makes me think the Steelers believe that is at least a possibility, though many will say it's forward-looking to when Haggans' contract is up after the 2007 season.  From what Jim Wexell says, the Steelers are already looking at Timmons as an inside guy to replace Farrior...possibly 2008.  As said, I don't like Timmons outside but think he can be real good inside.  

Don't know what to think about the Spaeth pick.  Award winning TE.  Suppossedly the next Mark Bruener and will be involved from Day One in 3 TE sets.  Still, very likely he'll be #3 on the TE depth chart (ie. at the bottom) for most of the year.  Don't see him as being similar to a OT in that if Starks leaves, Spaeth won't fill that OT role.  Do like what I hear in that he's a better receiver than I'd given credit for.  As said by myself, aj, keystoneKC, and others, it really depends on how he and the rest of the TEs are used.  I realize it's a new regime, though not entirely considering Arians is old school.  But off-season promises don't always hold true...in last year's July/August camp, after Ben's injury, wasn't there a lot of hype about running a lot of no-huddle in 2006?  I'm sure there was some but not as much as I expected after hearing the coachspeak.  

Like the Sepulveda pick 'cause we've busted on quite a few 4th rounders lately.  At least Sep will make the team, unlike Fred Gibson or Omar Jacobs.  Stupid reason?  Maybe.  But I don't have a lot of faith in Colbert for Day Two picks...Drew Caylor, Bo Lacy, Matt Kranchick, Eric Taylor, Nat Adibi, etc.  Not necessarily because there weren't the occassional contributors such as Rian Wallace (STs) or .  But because we never protected those prospects.  We'd just plunk them on the practice squad and hope no one else noticed.  Now, have Kranchick or Gibson gone on to do anything worthwhile?  No.  But among the Steeler Nation, there tends to be the idea that Cowher, Lebeau or Whisenhunt, along with the veteran leaders of the team, could help these struggling guys along better than if the ended up somewhere like Cleveland.  It's been since 2002 since we really hit Day Two well.  So while the odds are long for a Day Two guy to make it, regardless of team, we've really had no success on Day Two.  So while it may sound ridiculous that I'm willing to go for arguably the best punter, with essentially two Day Two picks, I have a difficult time believe that with recent history, we would have protected a 4th round OL or LB.  The pick will at least make the team.  

Don't know anything about the final four guys guys.  And due much to my comments above about our recent Day Two success, I don't plan to investigate them much further, but also won't make comments on them one way or the other.  

Will say that I didn't realize McB was already pushing 300lbs.  Thought he was at 280# and would have to take the road that Nua has.  That's a good thing.

Don't know anything about Stephenson, Gay or Baker.  

As a whole, I thought this entire draft class was unspectacular, sans a player like Calvin Johnson.  Beyond the first 10-13 picks, everything became muddy and I found it difficult to differentiate the talent level.  Maybe I just don't have time this year or am just flat wrong.

Too bad you don't post in the Steelers section more often, WiH.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2007 at 21:06 by SCacalaki » Logged

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« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2007 at 22:05 »

I like your opinion SC..

1. Now looking at it.. I do see Timmons as more as an inside guy.. I got alot of trust in James Harrison due to his past play...Timmons could see more OLb time this year.. But due to his coverage skills he could possibly be Farrios replacement when he hangs those spikes up..

2. Woodley looks like the guy to be straight OLB.. either side..Clark will have to perform good to keep his job here..I am a fan of Clark... Just would hate to see him walk.. But Woodley adds depth to ROLB and LOLB..

3. You said Spaeth would end up being the #3 on this depth chart of TE's... If that ends up then I agree that 3rd round pick of him was a waste.. But I believe he'll beat oup Tuman.. I like this guys attitude.. Looks like he expects to come in and make a difference..His blocking and receiving skills are too good to be a #3.. Tuman is on a downfall..

4 Sepulveda.. I see your point.. He's a safe pick.. He'll be our punter unless some freak event...Watching Gardocki struggle last year was horrible...I liked Barr but this guy gets the knod..

5. McBean is an interesting guy.. Kinda new to football.. We did sign Eason..but he's been a bust...McBean has a real shot

About the final 3 guys you dont know about

Stephenson.... Ya this guy doesn't do anything for me.. Seems like a less aggressive Kemo...Really dont think he has a shot in hell...

Gay.. Hopefully this guy could beat out Anthony Madison.. I like Chidi..Only on special teams.. Gay looks like he can cover pretty decent.. I say keep 6 CB's.. Ike, McFad, Deshea, Coke, Chidi, Gay

Baker... Look at our receiving core...Hines, Holmes, Wash,Wilson, Reid.. Ya about it.. Tallest guy..Hines.. 6'3 Baker is some guy I think we need in this group.. I only got trust in Hines and Holmes.. Id love to see either Wash or Wilson get the axe and let Baker come in and make a difference..Let him get up there and get that jump ball..Something we havent done in 3 years?


I think people might be surprised.. This draft could turn out to be pretty decent..Could add some good depth, build special teams, and produce some points
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