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Author Topic: Davis is new starter at fullback...  (Read 3205 times)
LambertsFrontTeeth
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« on: Sep 06, 2007 at 17:29 »

Carey Davis apparently supplanted Kreider; kind of a surprise.  I suppose I can see the logic as far as this game.

Still, if the FO plans on deactivating Kreider frequently, uh, what was the point of keeping him on the roster?

Here is my personal theory/hope:  The FO is just waiting for Matt Spaeth to grasp enough of the offense so that they can jettison Tuman, and then Kreider takes his active roster spot for the duration of the season.

At least, that's my dream. Thoughts..

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/07249/815291-66.stm
« Last Edit: Sep 06, 2007 at 18:47 by jonzr » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: Sep 06, 2007 at 17:30 »

Oops, the subheading should read Kreider "DEactivated." Sorry!
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« Reply #2 on: Sep 06, 2007 at 17:51 »

Wow.  Davis had a good preseason and all, but I gotta say, this is surprising, and I don't agree with the move.

Davis is clearly more versatile, which is nice, but Kreider is a much better lead blocker at this point.  I think with the questions on the OLine, Kreiders value as a blocker outweighs all of that versatility.

IMO, this speaks to BA actually opening up the offense.  Maybe all the 3 and 4 WR sets, and 3 TE sets weren't just lip service.  If that's the case, and Davis is only in lead blocking 5 times a game, then I understand.  Still surprising.
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« Reply #3 on: Sep 06, 2007 at 17:55 »

Was Kreider playing STs during the preseason?  Can't remember.

Could come down to a STs issue.  Even if Kreider was on STs, Davis stood out a few times on STs during the preseason.

With the idea that the fullback position will be used less and less under Arians, it may come down to the better STer.
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« Reply #4 on: Sep 06, 2007 at 18:04 »

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Still, if the FO plans on deactivating Kreider frequently, uh, what was the point of keeping him on the roster?
 Agreed. Kinda surprising considering the only reason to have Kreider on the team was to do most of the lead blocking for FWP.  
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« Reply #5 on: Sep 06, 2007 at 19:03 »

I also do not the decision, and will be severly pissed if it adversly affects our abililty to run the ball.

The only good thing about it is it'll give us something concrete on which to do an initial evaluation of Tomlin's gameplanning skills.  
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« Reply #6 on: Sep 06, 2007 at 19:04 »

Wow... thats surprising, really.  I guess the point is to keep him on this year as insurance, and what I thought initially, to allow Davis and Russell to ease into that role.

I guess thats one less FA we have to resign this offseason.
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« Reply #7 on: Sep 06, 2007 at 19:35 »

Wow.... Horrible move IMO. The proof will be "in the pudding" as they say I guess. But this is as close to "irrefutable" eveidence against BA as you can get. All summer long "I heard.... no... we're still going to run the ball!" "Spread offense doesn't mean we can't run!" "Remeber the AFC playoffs from '06!"

Well it's true... we were a pass first team in those playoff games.... but guess what we did when we got the early lead... we ran the ball.... ALOT. Our inabilaty to do this will result in too many 3 and outs (even if the Offense is going good) Thus the Defense will be on the field way too long.

You want to fuck around like this in week one Vs. Cleveland that's one thing.... but if this becomes a year-long trend.... we may be in trouble.
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« Reply #8 on: Sep 06, 2007 at 22:19 »

you have to cut the cord someday...might as well start in game #1 against cleveland.  At least it will give us another option to run the ball when we have split backs in.

I imagine davis will meet and exceed Kreiders amount of carries from all of 2006 in this one game.  he doesnt have a high ceiling, but its a safe bet.

just looked up Krieder's stats from last year...he had one (1) flippin carry for 5 yards all year long.  thats just sad
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« Reply #9 on: Sep 06, 2007 at 22:41 »

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you have to cut the cord someday...might as well start in game #1 against cleveland.  At least it will give us another option to run the ball when we have split backs in.

I imagine davis will meet and exceed Kreiders amount of carries from all of 2006 in this one game.  he doesnt have a high ceiling, but its a safe bet.

just looked up Krieder's stats from last year...he had one (1) flippin carry for 5 yards all year long.  thats just sad
Kreider's job isn't to carry the ball.  Call Tony Richardson if you want a fullback to run the ball.  Kreider will blow the hole wide open.  Who cares how many carries he has?
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« Reply #10 on: Sep 06, 2007 at 23:02 »

Quote
Quote
you have to cut the cord someday...might as well start in game #1 against cleveland.  At least it will give us another option to run the ball when we have split backs in.

I imagine davis will meet and exceed Kreiders amount of carries from all of 2006 in this one game.  he doesnt have a high ceiling, but its a safe bet.

just looked up Krieder's stats from last year...he had one (1) flippin carry for 5 yards all year long.  thats just sad
Kreider's job isn't to carry the ball.  Call Tony Richardson if you want a fullback to run the ball.  Kreider will blow the hole wide open.  Who cares how many carries he has?
Agreed.
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« Reply #11 on: Sep 06, 2007 at 23:23 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
you have to cut the cord someday...might as well start in game #1 against cleveland.
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« Reply #12 on: Sep 06, 2007 at 23:46 »

hate to play devils advocate BUT...

And someone has probably said this at some point this summer but this is what i think..

Instead of Kreider blowing guys up and opening holes we'll have defenses looking to stop the inside running of Davis (that is, if he is effective in that role). thus, willie gets a little more room outside.. and who knows maybe Davis will blow open some lanes as well.

football is changing, backs are starting to realize that the smashmouth way was slowly killing them and teams are realizing that too.. it is almost a poor investment to have a guy beat himself up when he is capable of gaining yards without doing so.. far and i'm concerned if a guy gets 150 yards on the ground it doesn't matter what kind of runner he is..

i doubt if there will ever be another back like 36 (unless LJ keeps up at the pace he was at last year, which i doubt he will because it will cost him).. IMO we really need to give this a chance and not worry about having a big back/absolutely pounding the ball.. if you can complete a pass on 3rd and 1 or have a runner bounce it outside and get one or even sneak it for one yard you don't deserve to win anyhow.. IMO it's mostly in the push the o-line gets anyhow..

sorry if that's not the way a steeler fan should think, but that's is what i think is happening in football..

that being said the guys above are right.. if this is the case they should have just cut him..

either way bring on sunday.. i can't frick'in wait!! i've had on a different jersey everyday since monday and boy do i get some looks but who the hell cares!!!!! and none outdated (well except for retro's)..
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« Reply #13 on: Sep 07, 2007 at 01:16 »

They've gotta be shitting me. I understand the need to always be working for improvement and that complacency killed the cat and that Tomlin wants to put his mark on the team and eight billion other cliched jibber jibbar...but, Double U...Tee...to the F?

This team won the gaddam Super Bowl two years ago with Willie Parker and Ben Roethlisberger as their key components. Right on. I was psyched. Let me just be clear, however, that they were hardly the only two involved.

Christ...I've gone on and on about how concerned I am about losing leadership on this team. We cut Logan, Kimo left, Bussie retired, Cowher decided he was more interested in HS dike bball, Peazy was cut, Morgan was cut to make room for the brilliance that truly is Nate Washington (3rd year from THEE Tiffin University), Grimm and Whiz get picked over and bolt, Hoak retired, Okobi and Haynes(Ben's closest friend on the team) get dropped for UDFA rooks, Max Starks gets jerked around all preseason and demoted, Dan Krieder gets made a fool of and seems on the brink of deactivation, McFadden (the best fuckin player on the defense during the second half of 06) gets benched for Hines' buddy Deshea and nobody deserves an explanation because Tomlin has rolled into town.

I was upset that Carey Davis made the team. But like I said maybe the staff-in-the-know determined 34's career would never be the same with his latest injury. I refuse to believe that this cat came off the street, on his last chance, and beat out Dan Kreider on some HOF game performance, though.

Kreider is one of the best fullbacks in the league. If Arians' brilliant offense is so reliant on TE play then why did no end ever accumulate more than 25 recs in a season in his 3 years as a coordinator? < 25 receptions over 16 game season (as they never made the playoffs ranking 21st, 27th, and 25th in his tenure) is a joke. That's one impactful play a game. Kreider hasn't been worth that to us?

I don't get it. Not in the least.
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« Reply #14 on: Sep 07, 2007 at 07:15 »

being an outsider looking in (from Buffalo orig and a Bills fan) I really dont get it. Kreider IMO is the best blocking fullback in the game. I wouldnt be suprised if he asked ot be released if they consistently deactivate him.

Even in Buffalo's hayday with Thurman they still kept Carwell Gardner (a pure blocking FB) in about 1/3 of the plays. I mean the guy couldnt run the ball all that well but he could sure blow up a linebacker or 2 (ask Brian Cox). Heck even Buffalo would use 2 to 3 TE's consistently those years (Keith McKeller, Pete Metzallars, and Butch Rolle).

Parker better get 100+ against Cleveland or the fans will fry Arians and Tomlin!
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« Reply #15 on: Sep 07, 2007 at 07:25 »

Great.  I just bought a friggin' Kreider jersey last Christmas.  Shoulda known they were on sale for a reason.

I'll wear it anyway.  I love the guy, I love how he plays, I love how he overachieves, I love how he looks like an oversized Mack truck walking around.  IMO, one of the best UFA finds we've ever had.  And if I see FWP getting blown up before he gets to the LOS this Sunday, I'm gonna be pissed.

And to put the icing on the cake, my son bought a Faneca jersey.
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« Reply #16 on: Sep 07, 2007 at 07:28 »

Quote


And to put the icing on the cake, my son bought a Faneca jersey.
What's wrong with that?  I just finished stitching the captain's "C" on mine!
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« Reply #17 on: Sep 07, 2007 at 07:55 »

I think SC hit the nail on the head.

This probably has more to do with how they want the active roster to look plus the types of formations they expect to use, than it does with the idea that Davis is now ahead of Kreider at fullback.

Put simply: we're going to use a lot of one-back sets and Davis is a ST tackling machine, Kreider not so much. On top of that, when they want to spell Parker in the one-back, Davis, obviously, can carry the ball whereas Kreider really can't. This as opposed to Davis in front of Parker in the I 75% of the time.
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« Reply #18 on: Sep 07, 2007 at 08:21 »

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I think SC hit the nail on the head.

This probably has more to do with how they want the active roster to look plus the types of formations they expect to use, than it does with the idea that Davis is now ahead of Kreider at fullback.

Put simply: we're going to use a lot of one-back sets and Davis is a ST tackling machine, Kreider not so much. On top of that, when they want to spell Parker in the one-back, Davis, obviously, can carry the ball whereas Kreider really can't. This as opposed to Davis in front of Parker in the I 75% of the time.
Haynes was an escellent 3rd down back, running, catching and blocking.  Very versatile.  I thought Davis beat him out but didn't realize Krieder would also be a casualty of the situation.

Krieder kind of carries that Lambert/Bleier/Webster type of torch.  
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« Reply #19 on: Sep 07, 2007 at 09:20 »

If it works, I like it.  If not, not.  Maybe we're doing more runs out of spreads rather than power running.  When we want to use power, Kreider's gotta be the man.  With Cleveland's DL hurting like a muthuh, my guess is Arians wants them gassed early so Ben can settle in and throw.  

Maybe I should revise my prediction to 75-0.
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« Reply #20 on: Sep 07, 2007 at 09:41 »

Er, isn't this old news?

I seem to remember reading some article a couple weeks ago that said Davis was #1 on the depth chart at FB.

Maybe people glossed over it or didn't believe it (include me here), but there was obviously some truth to the report.

Regardless, hope Davis shows more on Sundays at FB than he has so far in the preseason because short of that one great run he had and some so-so blocking, he's been marginal at best.

We'll see in a couple days.
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« Reply #21 on: Sep 07, 2007 at 12:50 »

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If it works, I like it.  If not, not.
My thoughts exactly.  I'm willing to give the new coaching staff the benefit of the doubt.  They probably know what they're looking for out of the FB position this year and they apparently think that Davis gives it to them.  I'd expect we'll see as much Heat in the backfield as we will Davis.
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« Reply #22 on: Sep 07, 2007 at 14:56 »

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Maybe we're doing more runs out of spreads rather than power running

I remember reading a Tomlin quote shortly after he was hired...  He said something like, You can block the 8th guy in the box ( which is what we did with Kreider under Cowher) or you can scheme the 8th guy out of the box with the spread offense....
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« Reply #23 on: Sep 07, 2007 at 17:01 »

I think Kreider might be active on gameday.  I believe the Steelers usually have 3 RBs (which Davis certainly could qualify as one) and one FB active.  

Russell is inactive.  

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

Also wouldn't be surprised if Reid is inactive on gameday.  Leaves us with 4 WRs but if Arians really wants to run the 3 TE sets, I don't see the need for a 5th WR who plays on 2-4 plays per game (and can't play the return game well enough) v. having a guy like Kreider available for 10-15 plays with Davis available on STs and spelling Kreider.  

Cooper, BSP, Arnie Harrison, Darnell Stapleton, Russell, Reid, Essex, and Colclough/Gay are possible inactives in my mind.

Though maybe Tomlin thinks that, like Simmons as a backup OC, Davis is a 'tweener and allows Tomlin to suit up 3 backs instead of 4.  

I wouldn't fault Davis for not doing much offensively after the first game or two.  Coaching staff put him in at FB after that, to see if he could handle it.  Not much offense but guess they felt he was adequate.  Showed up on STs with big hits all throughout.

Logan moreso limped his way off the team than was shoved off.  Not a staple player IMO.  

I do think there would have been mutiny had Kreider been cut loose.  Not a money issue there, so I think the vets would have had a more difficult time accepting it.  

The Browns are probably a good testing ground for Davis.  Can he do it against the lesser of NFL teams?  If not, it's a short-lived experiment.

Edit:  I'll be most irked if Reid is active, being unable to lock down the starting return position, with Rossum being active too.  

And there better be a coupla 3 TE sets if all three TEs will be active.
« Last Edit: Sep 07, 2007 at 17:17 by SCacalaki » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: Sep 07, 2007 at 17:07 »

I think most of this has been covered in other posts but...

I'm skeptical in as much as we all know Kreider is as good a blocking FB as there is. I suppose the major upside is the fact that a defense might actually have to consider the fact that our FB might get some carries now. I wouldn't mind a few quick handoffs to the FB to shake things up.

I guess we'll find out soon how this pans out.

One thing I don't remember about the 70's (I was a young one then)...Was Bleir a good blocker? I know he was a good running FB.  
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« Reply #25 on: Sep 08, 2007 at 16:44 »

On a side note, my cousin from the 'Burgh sent me a signed 8X10 of Danny K.  Also got a pic of him signing it.  So I hope he stays around for a while.  Just a great Steeler.

Also received a signed McFadden pic.  

My cousin asked if I wanted a signed Ced Wilson photo.








I declined.
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« Reply #26 on: Sep 09, 2007 at 20:05 »

I guess it didn't matter much at the end of the day.
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« Reply #27 on: Sep 09, 2007 at 21:08 »

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Cooper, BSP, Arnie Harrison, Darnell Stapleton, Russell, Reid, Essex, and Colclough/Gay are possible inactives in my mind.

Not a bad guess.
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