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Author Topic: The complete ripping of the coaching staff  (Read 3608 times)
Winters in Holland
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« Reply #20 on: Oct 24, 2007 at 10:13 »

Zimm,

Unlike most everyone in this thread, I agree with you totally.

After the first series, I was already complaining when the Steelers were up 7-0, because I thought the *style* of the game plan could come back to bite us.


To flip it back around on everyone else, if we had stuck with our traditional run-based chew up the clock offense, the defense wouldn't have been on the field nearly as much, so they wouldn't have gotten taken advantage of as badly as they did.

The Steelers are not geared to win shootouts.

And when you pass as heavily as they did, you're setting yourself up for a shootout.


This was simply a case of Tomlin and Arians overthinking the game plan.  Badly.


.WiH.
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I don't care if Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy are black. Good for them. But that doesn't change the way I feel about them. The longer we keep looking at guys like Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith as "BLACK HEAD COACHES" as opposed to just "coaches" the longer race will continue to be a problem. --DoctorJohnnyFever
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« Reply #21 on: Oct 24, 2007 at 13:10 »

This is a good place to clarify my comments I have made in other threads about the play calling.  I wasn't bashing BA for the amount of passing, it was the total idiocy of the calls that were called in the situations.  In the 4th qtr how many 3rd and longs did we convert, which won't happen all of the time, becasue FWP got dropped for a 2 yard loss on 1st and 2nd down.  Especially if Denver had everyone in the stadium inside the box, how about an occasional pass on 1st down?

When Bettis didn't get any blocking, as long as a guy wasn't hitting him as he got the ball, he could get 2-4 yards which resulted in more 3rd and 4 situations instead of 3rd and 14.  I love Parker and the fact that he can get 40 yards on any given play, but I think an occasional pass on 1st down, if completed makes 3rd dowjn shorter after a run on 2nd down.  If the pass is incomplete, 2nd and 10 is better than 2nd and 12 or 13.  

I'm just saying the play calling sucked, and not just becasue there were a few more passes than runs.
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I wouldn't say I've been *missing* it, Bob.
steelerfaninCO
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« Reply #22 on: Oct 24, 2007 at 13:38 »

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To flip it back around on everyone else, if we had stuck with our traditional run-based chew up the clock offense, the defense wouldn't have been on the field nearly as much, so they wouldn't have gotten taken advantage of as badly as they did.

The Steelers are not geared to win shootouts.

 
So what happens when the Steelers go 3 and out all first half because they are consistently in 3rd and long? Your premise  assumes that they get at least 3-4 first downs a drive for the "chew up the clock offense". That wasn't going to happen in the 1st half Sunday night. Not with our OL, and not in that stadium against the schemes they were employing. I was there and it was ROCKING pretty much all game. The fans and the players were amped for this one. Yet the Steelers almost won with a strong 2nd half performance..
.

Your just trying to let the D off the hook. 28 points should have been enough to beat that team. The D was fully rested on Denver's first drive of the game when they went right down and answered the Steelers score. It just wasn't their night. Also,  I think our OL was/is exposed as shaky at best, and poor execution of the game plan by the players and BA, led to what happened. It was the SMART thing to do. You pass on that defense scheme minus their best CB. They have a 1st round SB winning franchise QB, a SB MVP WR, emerging 1st round WR, and a 1st round TE that terrorizes people when given the chance. If BR had decent time to throw, consistently, they would rip up secondaries. When he is running for his life, sometimes he makes a great play, but sometimes he makes costly mistakes, like the fumble. Without the fumble return its tied early in the 3rd and its it different game.

The OL has got to get their shit together and keep BR protected. Run blocking is spotty at best and forget about the middle to right side. So as much as I would love to see them steamrolling people, we haven't been able to see "Steeler Football" against teams on the road not named Cleveland, and they haven't played any power houses yet. The D will bounce back no doubt, but I am a little worried about the OL.
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Hercules50
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« Reply #23 on: Oct 24, 2007 at 13:44 »

Interesting argument, and good points made on all sides.

I'm more persuaded by SteelerfaninCO's view. The OL (possibly combined with  Willie's running style) are creating a lot of 2nd-and-10s and 3rd-and-longs when we do try to run it.

As a team, our running game is feast or famine. It just is. It's been that way for a couple of years. Even when we do make a point of running it often, we still wind up with a lot of 2nd-and-9 types of downs. It's not 2004 anymore and we can't just pound people with Bettis and Staley anytime we want to.  
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Y2Joyce
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« Reply #24 on: Oct 24, 2007 at 23:46 »

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Denver was geared to stop the run. We passed and we scored 28 thru the air.

Nothin' wrong with that. The Steeler offense puts up 28 PPG and we win the division.

And if we can get that up to 30-some PPG everyone will act as if we're impossible to beat, our QB is the greatest of all-time and we'd be the perfect model for how everyone should lead their lives. (Source: Media reaction to New England '07).

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Im a little concerned for Sunday.

I am concerned every Sunday. I really am. This is the NFL after all and the attitude of "ah we are better so we're gonna kill 'em!" probably causes the predictable know-it-all outrage that I have to hear any time we lose a game.

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The Steelers are not geared to win shootouts.

What are they "geared" to do? It's a football team not some special-purpose piece of machinery designed to operate in a controlled environment.

Sometimes you've got to win shootouts. Sometimes you've got to "slug it out" or wtfever. Sometimes you've gotta play field position. Sometimes you've gotta resort to the old bag o' tricks. And several other cliched scenarios.

I say the best thing to do is just work hard at having a team that is geared to do whatever it takes to win the game. If you fall behind by multiple scores: bear down and do what youve got to and catch up. Once you catch up and it's a tie game in the last minute: get a stop, obviously.

It didn't work out Sunday night (on the road, in primetime, in the cold, with half of the defense banged up, against a team that was executing at optimum efficiency) but I think it's silly to sit back and think that the Steelers can only win if they operate a certain way.

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When Bettis didn't get any blocking, as long as a guy wasn't hitting him as he got the ball, he could get 2-4 yards which resulted in more 3rd and 4 situations instead of 3rd and 14.

Bettis is the best Steeler of the last 30 years and pretty much every team in the league would like to have a back who could pick up yardage on those types of plays right now. Obviously, he is missed.

I would have loved to see us come out and pound away with Willie P (and since I had him in a close fantasy game I bitched about it all night long really) but I don't think coming out and throwing from a variety of sets cost us the game. We went right down the field for a 7-0 lead and I thought we'd hang 100 on them bishes. We produced 4 good TD drives.

However if the only way for the Steelers to win a game is to come out in the same fashion every week then they aren't going anywhere anyway. Anyhow. Anybody.

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The OL has got to get their shit together and keep BR protected.

SING RU$S GRIM!  Nah you're right. Everyone gives up sacks and the OL is perpetually overanalyzed ("the OLine is where you win games"...then why did Dallas and NE get Owens and Moss and become the highest scoring teams in either conference and AD go to Minnesota and suddenly their OL became sweet?) but we've gotta do a better job. There's been no consistency and I have no confidence in any of the backups besides Starks.

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It's not 2004 anymore and we can't just pound people with Bettis and Staley anytime we want to.

I agree and I'll predict that we don't win 15 regular season games this year. Not without Plex anyway! SING PLAXSICKO BURISE!

 
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« Reply #25 on: Oct 25, 2007 at 04:44 »

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To flip it back around on everyone else, if we had stuck with our traditional run-based chew up the clock offense, the defense wouldn't have been on the field nearly as much, so they wouldn't have gotten taken advantage of as badly as they did.

The Steelers are not geared to win shootouts.

And when you pass as heavily as they did, you're setting yourself up for a shootout.


This was simply a case of Tomlin and Arians overthinking the game plan.  Badly.


.WiH.
I am willing to wager that there would have been quite a few 3 and outs with that approach.  Coaches are still attempting to stop the steelers run game first and foremost.  Some teams are better equipped to do so.  On the road against a team coming after off their Bye as well, only gave Denver an extra week to make the proper adjustments.  doesnt matter that Denver had the worst Run D in the league, that extra week kicked it up a notch.  we had the #1 D in the lleague coming in and look how that turned out FFS (to jay effin cutler of all peeps).

I'm all for coming out and doing the complete opposite of what an opposong teams is expecting.  That approach caught every team in 05 off guard all the way to #5.

shootouts schmootouts...what ever it takes dude.

my only complaint is fantasy related with one fast william parker not getting enough TDs.

the days of forcing a style of play, no matter how futile it has become, retired to the plush pastures of NC a year ago.

Im actually happy with the offensive game plans so far overall.  sure there has been some hiccups against Zona, etc...but hey it happens.

 
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Winters in Holland
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« Reply #26 on: Oct 25, 2007 at 10:14 »

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I am willing to wager that there would have been quite a few 3 and outs with that approach.  Coaches are still attempting to stop the steelers run game first and foremost.  Some teams are better equipped to do so.  On the road against a team coming after off their Bye as well, only gave Denver an extra week to make the proper adjustments.  doesnt matter that Denver had the worst Run D in the league, that extra week kicked it up a notch.  we had the #1 D in the lleague coming in and look how that turned out FFS (to jay effin cutler of all peeps).

I'm all for coming out and doing the complete opposite of what an opposong teams is expecting.  That approach caught every team in 05 off guard all the way to #5.

shootouts schmootouts...what ever it takes dude.

my only complaint is fantasy related with one fast william parker not getting enough TDs.

the days of forcing a style of play, no matter how futile it has become, retired to the plush pastures of NC a year ago.

Im actually happy with the offensive game plans so far overall.  sure there has been some hiccups against Zona, etc...but hey it happens.
Possibly, but we'll never know for sure, because the Steelers really didn't have any series where they actually committed to trying the run, calling it for the majority (over half) of the plays in any given series.

They never even tried to see if the run was successful, before going full-out pass.


And I stick by my comment that we're "not geared" to win shootouts.  We may have the personnel for it, but we don't engage in them enough to get our players experience in those situations.

So, when we get into a shootout with a team, we're at a disadvantage if the other team has more experience in consistently running the offense/defense during such a situation.


.WiH.
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I don't care if Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy are black. Good for them. But that doesn't change the way I feel about them. The longer we keep looking at guys like Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith as "BLACK HEAD COACHES" as opposed to just "coaches" the longer race will continue to be a problem. --DoctorJohnnyFever
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« Reply #27 on: Oct 25, 2007 at 10:43 »

The Steelers gameplan on Sunday was the exact same thing they've been doing for the past three seasons and five games. It didn't work on Sunday. That doesn't make it a bad plan.

I love what BA is doing with the offense. Heath Miller is actually a part of it, he's probably going to catch as many passes this season as he did his first two seasons...combined.  
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Hercules50
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« Reply #28 on: Oct 25, 2007 at 11:33 »

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To flip it back around on everyone else, if we had stuck with our traditional run-based chew up the clock offense, the defense wouldn't have been on the field nearly as much, so they wouldn't have gotten taken advantage of as badly as they did.
 
On the other hand, though, if a case can be made that our defense was tired or something, how do we explain the last Denver drive?

Right before the game-winning drive:

We had a long drive for a TD.

Denver went 3-and-out.

We had a long drive for a TD.

And yet....where was our pass rush on that last drive? Where was the energy on defense? Nowhere. I'm not convinced by the "we were tired" argument.
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« Reply #29 on: Oct 25, 2007 at 12:02 »

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And yet....where was our pass rush on that last drive? Where was the energy on defense? Nowhere. I'm not convinced by the "we were tired" argument.

Unless one offense just has a massive advantage in TOP; or there is a heat factor; I don't buy ANY of that "They were tired" mess.  If you can't get pumped up to bring it on the last drive of a Sun. night game vs. a team that embarrassed you last year, you're not a professional.  

I don't buy that running it three straight times gets us any further than throwing it.  Consistency and balance are what most offenses are looking for, and it's what we need.  I'm also not persuaded that FWP can't get the "tough yards."  I mean, he's no Bettis, but I've seen quite a few 2-4 yard runs this year where he looked like he was going to be stoned.  I hope to see us come out this week vs. Cincy, be balanced, TAKE CARE OF THE BALL, and win the game.  Period.
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