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Author Topic: The complete ripping of the coaching staff  (Read 3519 times)
DoctorJohnnyFever
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« Reply #40 on: Oct 26, 2007 at 11:46 »

But they are successful at winning those games. The biggest reason their run ratio has been so high is because they've had such big leads in the second half that they never have to throw the ball again.  When you're winning 24-3 at halftime you're not going to be throwing much in the second half which is going to make it look like you're winning because you're running. Which is what we saw in 2005 and the first five games of this season.

Just because the Steelers lost a lot of games playing that style with Tommy Maddox and Amos Zereoue doesn't mean they're going to lose a lot of games with actual talent at those positions.



 
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Winters in Holland
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« Reply #41 on: Oct 26, 2007 at 12:08 »

Again, I'm not disputing 50:50- I'm okay with that, as I know some of their biggest triumphs over the past few years have been with that approach.

What I want to avoid is a 70:30 pass:run skew like what we saw in the first half of the Denver game.  Especially with Ben being a fairly INT-prone QB.


.WiH.
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I don't care if Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy are black. Good for them. But that doesn't change the way I feel about them. The longer we keep looking at guys like Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith as "BLACK HEAD COACHES" as opposed to just "coaches" the longer race will continue to be a problem. --DoctorJohnnyFever
DoctorJohnnyFever
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« Reply #42 on: Oct 26, 2007 at 12:19 »

I'm not talking 50:50. I'm talking games where they've thrown it more than they've run it in the first half, it's been the majority of their games the last couple of years. And they've had a lot of success with it.

The days of pounding Jerome Bettis into the line 400 times a game are gone.
 
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msdmnr2002
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« Reply #43 on: Oct 26, 2007 at 14:28 »

Instead of looking at just the ratio on run:pass, I took a look at the play-by-play to see how things went in the first half.

Drive #1 - 6 passes, 2 runs, TD.  Yes, pass happy, but it was effective and caught them off guard.  Can't complain about that.

Drive #2: 7 yard run on first; went for a post route on 2nd (reasonable in a second and short), incomplete on 3rd (Hines drop).

Sure, we could have pounded it on short yardage, but we passed effectively on the first drive - don't have a problem with the calls.

Drive #3:  short completion, long INT.

Poor choice there IMO.  I hate that long throw it up for grabs thing - doesn't work for us.  Run play there might be the better choice.

2nd quarter:

Drive #4 - 4 running plays followed by incompetion on 3rd and 4.  Typical old style Steelers drive.

Drive #5 - 2 runs for -4 yards.  16 yard completion on 3rd and 14.  Incomplete, 1 yard run, INT off Hines's hands.

Tried to keep running game going, but it was ineffective.

Drive #6 (down 14-7 now) -  Run, 2 passes, sack/fumble/TD Denver.  relatively late in the half, going to see more passes.

After that we're down 2 scores.  Won't count 2 minute drill for missed FG.

3rd quarter:  2 runs, 1 yard each - Ben scrambles for first down, 3 more runs, pass for TD on 3rd and 10.

Down 2 scores we haven't abandoned the run, even though it's inconsistent.

The last two drives were mostly pass, as would be expected, though we did sprinkle in some running plays.

the main problem with the running game was the inconsistency.  Not counting the QB sneak or scrambles by Ben, I counted 23 running plays.  11 went for one yard or less (several lost yardage), 4 went for 3 yards (weird-no 2 yard runs), and 8 went for 4 or more.  When you're getting that high a percentage of minimal or negative plays in the running game, it's hard to justify continuing to try to pound away.
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Hercules50
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« Reply #44 on: Oct 26, 2007 at 14:47 »

Quote
Instead of looking at just the ratio on run:pass, I took a look at the play-by-play to see how things went in the first half.
 
Great post.

And as much as I love Willie, his running style makes it difficult for us to run a ball-control attack.

Maybe it's not Willie, maybe it's the O-Line, but either way, since these are the players we have this season, I think we'll continue to see a LOT of 2nd-and-9 and 2nd-and-10 even when we run it on first down.

And btw -- does anyone else think Parker has regressed into old habits a tiny bit this year? It seems like, after last year when he clearly improved his ability to run inside, that this year he's really trying to bounce it outside at any opportunity. Maybe that's what happens when the OL is struggling more; but it just seems like he's always looking to head to the corner.
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oblongatta
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« Reply #45 on: Oct 26, 2007 at 16:00 »

Quote

Drive #2: 7 yard run on first; went for a post route on 2nd (reasonable in a second and short), incomplete on 3rd (Hines drop).

Sure, we could have pounded it on short yardage, but we passed effectively on the first drive - don't have a problem with the calls.

Drive #3:  short completion, long INT.

Poor choice there IMO.  I hate that long throw it up for grabs thing - doesn't work for us.  Run play there might be the better choice.
 
So this is really the biggest offending drive.  The pass was working.  I t opened up the running game and they had a second a short.  Even an attempt to pass on second, I was kind of fine with, but I think they should have hit the run there a couple more times.  Then to open the next drive with the passing game that was ineffective in the last drive after a nice start with the running game was a mistake.  

BTW one other thing to note was that the ball was clearly being held up by the wind in the direction of the 1st quarter.  The long pass play on that drive was a way to risky.

Then when they had the wind in the 2nd, they open with running game.  I would hjave rather they tried for a long pass in that drive.


It's funny but when you analyze the drive-by-drive and factor in the 2 min drill, it doesn't look that bad in terms of play calling.  But then you look at the overall numbers and see that they just had way too few running plays against a bad run defense (evn if set up to stop the run).  This part here is where most people are complaining.  So yeah, I think they should have been a little more proactive and push the run a bit more.
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pensodyssey
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« Reply #46 on: Oct 26, 2007 at 17:12 »

Quote

And btw -- does anyone else think Parker has regressed into old habits a tiny bit this year? It seems like, after last year when he clearly improved his ability to run inside, that this year he's really trying to bounce it outside at any opportunity. Maybe that's what happens when the OL is struggling more; but it just seems like he's always looking to head to the corner.
I think you might have a point, it's just damned hard to tell when the OL is so bad.

Or, maybe he was told to try and bounce it at every opportunity.   Not out of the question.
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« Reply #47 on: Oct 27, 2007 at 20:16 »

I can't blame Willie for bouncing outside -- as it is, whenever he receives the handoff, he usually has a defender already breathing down his neck. Kinda makes it hard to find the correct hole.  
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« Reply #48 on: Oct 27, 2007 at 23:46 »

Quote
Quote
Instead of looking at just the ratio on run:pass, I took a look at the play-by-play to see how things went in the first half.
 
Great post.

And as much as I love Willie, his running style makes it difficult for us to run a ball-control attack.

Maybe it's not Willie, maybe it's the O-Line, but either way, since these are the players we have this season, I think we'll continue to see a LOT of 2nd-and-9 and 2nd-and-10 even when we run it on first down.

And btw -- does anyone else think Parker has regressed into old habits a tiny bit this year? It seems like, after last year when he clearly improved his ability to run inside, that this year he's really trying to bounce it outside at any opportunity. Maybe that's what happens when the OL is struggling more; but it just seems like he's always looking to head to the corner.
I think it's more the line than Willie, but part of coaching is working with what you have.

Parker isn't ever going to break a lot of tackles, even the arm varieties, and may not be the smallish inside tough guy runner in the class of, say, a Tiki Barber.  That said, I'm not in favor of pulling Parker on early downs, but consistently running inside trap plays on early downs isn't doing the Steelers any favors.

Of course, he isn't alone in this.  A blurb in the Balt.-Buffalo game notes that McGahee averages well over 4 to the outside, 1.7 between the tackles.  I'm not comparing the two, but Billick is being reamed locally for his play selection to date, and this happened to be part of it.

There's nothing wrong in having a guy that gets 1,400 yards, but needs to be replaced with a back for that short yardage burst.  Parker stayed in the RZ/short yardage role last year because there wasn't a better option.  Unless somebody magically transforms the right side of the PSO line into road graders, having Parker in there instead of pile movers on quick hitters is not really an option for short yardage.

It's the one area so far in the season where Arians hasn't shown much imagination.  And that 3-TE formation and its variants still blows chunks.
 
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DoctorJohnnyFever
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« Reply #49 on: Oct 28, 2007 at 11:20 »

Chin was just on CBS talking about how the Steelers success in recent years was based on throwing early and running late.

Just sayin'......
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