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Author Topic: Derek Anderson and Carson Palmer  (Read 1391 times)
Preacherman0
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« on: Nov 09, 2007 at 12:05 »

Since I don't want to do my many tasks this afternoon, I thought I'd continue the QB debate based on some stuff I heard this morning.

Kiper was on Mike&Mike, and they asked him, "Outside of Brady or Manning, what NFL QB would you choose to start your franchise?"  They mentioned Ben, Palmer, Romo.

Kiper says Carson Palmer.  I could give you a laundry list of reasons why that would be a dumb move, and why I'd never take Palmer over Ben.  Then he goes another direction, to prove that he is the most overrated, overblown dildo on the planet, by saying Derek Anderson.  Derek-friggin-Anderson.

Now I'm impressed with the kid, but he's been a starter for 8 games.  8.  By the 8th game on his career, Ben was 8-0 and had wins over two undefeated teams, including the Patriots.  How many times have we seen a guy start off as a ball of fire and then fade; maybe to get it back together, or maybe to fade away forever?  Yet the "expert" is ready to build his franchise around a guy who has played in 8 games so far.    

Call me a "homer" or a Ben Apologist or whatever you want.  There is no QB outside of the Messiah 1 and 2 that I would take over Ben.  Carson Palmer has been great, but he's not much if you hit him and he's already had a major knee injury.  Romo has shown some great stuff and is similar to Ben in some ways, but I'm not sold on him yet.  Derek Anderson???  Please.

Say what you want about stats, mechanics, throwing the ball where he shouldn't try to go with it, etc.  I want Ben to improve all of that--but, with that said, he's still just a winner.  To me, he just has that "it" factor that makes you believe he's going to find a way to get it done, to bring you back, to pull it together when you need it.  I was afraid he might have lost it last year, but it seems to be back in full force this year.
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give'emthaboot
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« Reply #1 on: Nov 09, 2007 at 12:33 »

you could make the argument about Palmer, but there is no way in hell that Derek Anderson belongs anywhere in that discussion.

and for the record, i am with ya about Ben being #3 behind Beardy and Manning, Preach.
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Hercules50
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« Reply #2 on: Nov 09, 2007 at 12:41 »

Interesting thoughts. And Preach is dead-on when he talks about how many a QB looks deceptively good early on, before defenses have scouted him thouroughly.

In fact, I'd say most QBs, even the very talented (maybe especially the very talented) go through a period of surprisingly good play to start, followed by a short-medium length drop-off after they've been thoroughly scouted.

The good and great ones adjust their game in turn, developing it so that they can overcome the adjustments defenses have made. Look at Brady. In his second year, he struggled. Manning's own play dipped for a couple of years. Favre, too. They overcame it and prospered, as has Ben.

But Derek Anderson -- the book's still out on him. He could simply be another Tommy Maddox -- remember when Maddox first took over, and he would routinely complete 70% of his passes and make a lot of big plays?

Well, he fell to earth. In 2002, Maddox had a stout line in front of him, decent running behind him, and a receiving corps of Hines, Plax, a solid veteran guy in Mathis, and a rookie Randle El. Defenses that had scouted the Steelers as a running team with a running QB took a long, long time to figure out what to do.

As for today's QBs, you can't argue against Manning or Brady. I do think that Carson Palmer is extremely talented, throws a very accurate ball, and reads defenses well.

But Ben is tougher than Palmer, is a better leader, is a thousand times more mobile, and has an upside, still. I think we've seen the best there is out of Palmer (which is quite good). Whereas Ben is dangerous now and could get even better.

Ben at 28 or 29 is going to be the best passer in football (unless his career goes the way of McNabb's, with injuries piling up....)
« Last Edit: Nov 09, 2007 at 12:42 by Hercules50 » Logged
aj_law
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« Reply #3 on: Nov 09, 2007 at 13:05 »

Honestly, that's very surprising to hear him say that.  I think that's a classic example of a media "expert" making a statement purely to get ratings because Kiper has always been (from the several times I've heard him comment on Ben) a Roethlisberger proponent.  IIRC, he was high on him leading up to the draft and ever since he was picked by Pittsburgh, I've heard him defend Ben, on at least a couple occasions, when other "experts" tried to label him as a "game manager," etc., etc.

For him to basically reverse his position on #7 by wanting Anderson over him, it says to me that he's just looking to stir the pot.  Or, maybe he's hit the early stages of Alzheimers.
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« Reply #4 on: Nov 09, 2007 at 13:27 »

I really like Palmer, but the thing that steers me off, and it's a big thing when it comes to QBs, is he isn't clutch.  You look at his poise in the pocket, and you think he would be or should be, but I can't say I've ever seen him with the ball in his hand at the end of the game needing a score, deliver.  Some nice choppy run ons, huh?  Oh, well, screw it, I'm on a roll.  Worse yet, he always seems to shit it.  It's one thing to come up short or just run out of time.  But whenever they need him to give them that big drive, he gives it back.
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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #5 on: Nov 09, 2007 at 14:26 »

Derek Anderson looks like a one-trick pony to me.  Good long ball thrower.  Maybe he crashes soon, maybe not, but he's gonna get a Matt Schaub type deal at the end of the year.  I don't see a lot of finesse in his game, no underneath stuff and no running.  If teams force him to play a high percentage game, or get in his cage and rattle him, what's he going to do?

Palmer's been exposed, IMO.  When his line was better and he had 3 solid receivers, sure he looked good.  A bit robotic, but good.  He's looked morbid at times this season, just dreadful.  You can invoke the surrounding cast argument, but then you'd have to downgrade Manning.  Brady was good without a ton of talent, but his line has always been superior, even when his WRs weren't.  Now he's flush with weapons.

I think Ben is easily in the mix of the top 3.  After that, Romo has looked pretty good, that Bills fiasco aside.  Palmer's overrated, but top third tier.  Favre can still sling it; even with his down years and tendency to take risks, he's still one of the toughest sumumbishes out there.

McNabb looks like he's lost some of his sharpness.  Eli is a dead middle of the pack QB IMO.  Hasselbeck was also exposed this year.  I think Rivers has shown some good stuff, but early on this year it wasn't clicking.  I'd probably say Rivers is top 10, though.  

Blah blah.

Manning, Brady, Ben.

29 other guys.

End of story.
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SCacalaki
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« Reply #6 on: Nov 09, 2007 at 14:56 »

Derek Anderson = Phirrip Livers = Greatness
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Hercules50
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« Reply #7 on: Nov 09, 2007 at 15:21 »

yeah, maybe Carson Palmer is going to have a Drew Bledsoe trajectory.

A tall and accurate thrower with little feel for gutting out wins, who will usually put up stats that suggest a better player.

For some reason, I just don't buy Romo. A younger Tommy Maddox, I think, who's playing right now with a very good surrounding group of 10. As that cast diminishes, either because of age or the salary cap forces some cuts, Romo's play diminishes.

If the Steelers play the 'Boys in the Super Bowl, we crush them.  
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Y2Joyce
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« Reply #8 on: Nov 09, 2007 at 17:12 »

Carson Palmer couldn't hold Roethlisberger's jock.

They aren't in the same class. Every time they play Ben kicks his ass.

Ben is a Super Bowl winning QB and Palmer's never won a playoff game.

Ben bangs celebs and has a famous sandwich named after him. Carson  plays cornhole and deepthroats hot dogs.
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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #9 on: Nov 09, 2007 at 17:42 »

Quote
yeah, maybe Carson Palmer is going to have a Drew Bledsoe trajectory.

A tall and accurate thrower with little feel for gutting out wins, who will usually put up stats that suggest a better player.

For some reason, I just don't buy Romo. A younger Tommy Maddox, I think, who's playing right now with a very good surrounding group of 10. As that cast diminishes, either because of age or the salary cap forces some cuts, Romo's play diminishes.

If the Steelers play the 'Boys in the Super Bowl, we crush them.
Carson as a neo-Bledsoe... I try to laugh it off, and it settles in as accurate at every turn.  Seriously, is there a better analog?

I've often said Ben is a neo-Favre, but I think that needs revision.  Favre will always put up better total numbers, yardage and completions and such.  Both are good scramblers, make plays on the go, direct on the go.  I actually think Ben has a higher percentage of "magic" plays, and they are tied already in Lombardis.  They can both make bonehead mistakes, but Ben seems to be correcting that this season.  

I think Romo is nothing like Maddox, sorry.  I see him as the love child of Kurt Warner and Jeff Garcia.  No explanation for that, it just seems to fit.  Which begs the question, if Ben is not Favre, he is the love child of Favre and ________?  McNair?  Who?

One guy I think might do well in the Rivers mold is Cutler.  Didn't care for him coming out of Vandy, but he's a good fit in Denver, though their season blows mightily.  I think he'll rebound, but he would have sunk and stunk elsewhere.  

JEFFE GORGE RULZ!!!!!!! BARSTADS!!!!!!! SINGE JERF GOGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If Jeff George was a planet, he'd be Uranus.  Sophomoric, but true.  
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