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Author Topic: Derek Anderson and Carson Palmer  (Read 1315 times)
jonzr
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« Reply #10 on: Nov 09, 2007 at 18:05 »

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Which begs the question, if Ben is not Favre, he is the love child of Favre and ________?  

 
How about that guy from Denver?  Used to wear #7, Ben's fave QB, umm ... what was his name?
 
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« Reply #11 on: Nov 12, 2007 at 22:50 »

I know the question to Kiper (next to worthless, IMO), was who you wanted in the here and now, presumably with an above average team.  But the real question is who you want in the longer run.

OK, Brady is Montana, with Manning functioning as this generation's Dan Marino.  That doesn't leave a lot of room for comparison on their ends.

Romo is two years older than Big Ben, BTW.  When I first saw Rothlisberger, with his ability to roll out, throw deep, and sorta take care of the ball, I thought about Boomer Esiason, but this is actually a more appropriate match for Romo.  Boomer's big years were from Age 24-30, including some ultra-high YPA numbers.  Romo looks like he'll have the same career arc, which ain't bad.

I don't like the BBR-Elway comparison, nor the one with Favre's gunslinger genre.  Nobody outside of Marino had the arm strength of those two.  Elway's numbers didn't get really good until he had a running game, and he has a lot of picks for a HOF'er.  Elway also ran far more than Ben does.

Aikman has similar numbers to this class, but was working behind an all-time O-line.  Young's a tough comparison for similar reasons.

My take on this is that Big Ben is an improved and larger version of Jim Kelly.  Tough guy, runs effectively about twice a game, top tier YPA, relatively low pick percentage.  Ben does everything that Kelly did, except just a little better.  Kelly also didn't throw a gazillion times a year (unlike an Elway or Marino).  So I say he's somewhere between Kelly and Elway.

I know that doesn't put Roethlisberger in the Top 5 of all time, but does stick him on a HOF track.  I don't know that anyone other than Brady or Manning can say that among current QB's in their prime.  E. Manning, Rivers, Brees, etc. will be able to retire with decent numbers, but they will ultimately lack the physical tools to be in this class.  They'll have years that look like parts of Dave Kreig's career.

Palmer could potentially rise above this secondary crop, but like Finny sez, the guy's a friggin' robot.

Further, Favre might make the Pro Bowl play next year, for all anyone knows.  If so, he might be able to put a few records out of Peyton's reach.  I suspect that Indy will continue to build a passing offense around Manning that will keep him in the league for another decade, despite the disaster on Sunday.

Can't believe that the Steelers have the #2 seed for the moment.
« Last Edit: Nov 12, 2007 at 23:42 by padgfrombf » Logged
vinman3
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« Reply #12 on: Nov 13, 2007 at 06:22 »

Mike and Mike had a discussion of the top QBs under the age of 27 (had to fit Romo  in their discussion). They had Ben #1, Palmer #2, Romo, #3. Finally some recognition for what we have known since Ben's rookie year.
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« Reply #13 on: Nov 13, 2007 at 08:23 »

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My take on this is that Big Ben is an improved and larger version of Jim Kelly.  Tough guy, runs effectively about twice a game, top tier YPA, relatively low pick percentage.  Ben does everything that Kelly did, except just a little better.  Kelly also didn't throw a gazillion times a year (unlike an Elway or Marino).  So I say he's somewhere between Kelly and Elway.

 
I think you are dead on. Until this year, I kind of thought Ben was more Kelly-esque, but Kelly was never as mobile and threw as much on the run as Ben is doing now.

I think Kelly was better in the pocket than Ben (at least, to this point), but also had better pass protection, so, that might not be the fairest comparison.

I'll take the Kelly and Elway combo. With a dash of (as one sports columnist noted)  Doug Flutie.  
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« Reply #14 on: Nov 13, 2007 at 15:11 »

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Mike and Mike had a discussion of the top QBs under the age of 27 (had to fit Romo  in their discussion). They had Ben #1, Palmer #2, Romo, #3. Finally some recognition for what we have known since Ben's rookie year.
From the discussion I heard (which was around 9 AM), Golic took Ben 1st while Greenie waffled all over the place.  The first time he talked about it, he went with Palmer.  Then, when they brought Schlereth on, he said Romo.  To his credit, he kept saying that it was a very tough decision and he really didn't know who he would take if push came to shove.

So much of what the "experts" say is pegged in the here and now though.  Ben and Romo have been the better of those three this year so it's not really surprising that they're getting the nod over Palmer.

What did kinda irk me about the discussion was the reference (again) to supporting cast and how Ben and Romo are really benefiting from being on "good" teams while Palmer's team "is a mess this year" (or something to that effect).  Good QBs are supposed to make their teams better.  IMO, that's what Ben and Romo have been doing.  In '04, Ben inherited 90% of a "good team" that went a monster 6-10 the year before.  I can't remember off the top of my head if all 22 starters were the same from the prior year.  I think there were maybe one or two changes on both sides of the ball, tops.  They proceed to go 15-1 in '04 and win the SB in '05.  The early part of Romo's career is very similar.  Takes over a team that was fighting mediocrity with Bledsoe as their QB and turns them into a Conference powerhouse.  If it wasn't for him, Dallas doesn't make the playoffs last year and unfortunately, because of his FG gaffe, they get bounced from them too.  If it wasn't for that mistake though, I'm pretty convinced that Dallas goes to the S.B. instead of Chicago.  They sure seem to be on the same track this year too.  Sound familiar?

I really think that when they talk about this younger crop of QBs (< 27 or 28), Ben and Romo will be the class of the group, by a lot.  I see both of those guys producing on a consistently high level.  Yeah, guys like Palmer, Cutler, E.Manning, Anderson and Rivers will have decent to good statistical seasons here and there.  But, if you want guys that just flat out know what it takes to win, I'll take #7 and #9 over any of the others.  
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