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Author Topic: Season's Over, Right?  (Read 2444 times)
DoctorJohnnyFever
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« on: Nov 19, 2007 at 11:12 »

Fuck no. I refuse to talk about the draft, the off-season, next year, or anything else that  doesn't have to do with the 2007 Pittsburgh Steelers.

We're 7-3 with a two game lead in the division. (I know it's only technically a one game lead, but since we own the tie-breaker over everyone, it's essentially a two game lead).

Please. Step. Away. From. The. Ledge.

Carry on.

 
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« Reply #1 on: Nov 19, 2007 at 11:19 »

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Please. Step. Away. From. The. Ledge.

Tried to.  I fell off.  Too many Nyquiltinis after the game.

Of course, the ledge was 3 feet, so all I got was a slightly sprained ankle.
 
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« Reply #2 on: Nov 19, 2007 at 11:35 »



Something keeps eating the dishes of peanuts I leave in the living room.




We're 7-3; we're just not that good.  It's one thing to stumble once or twice during a marathon, but this was the equivalent to grunting out a full loaf just past the 13 mile marker.

I'll talk about the draft.  If I could replace that OL with 5 new guys, that'd be a consideration.
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« Reply #3 on: Nov 19, 2007 at 13:08 »

Ditto, here.

 
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« Reply #4 on: Nov 19, 2007 at 18:02 »

Im as optomistic as they come, but there is no denying the lousy play of the O line and the basic fundamentals that are lacking.  It would be a different story if we were assured homefeild throughout, but that aint happeneing with that machine up in NE.

nothing will change the ineffectiveness of the O line unless the coaching staff realises to work around the weakness rather than forcing its "will" against an obvious stacked line.  It just seems the coaching staff isnt aware of the problem and keeps thinking will start to gel eventually as long as they give FWP his carries

Brady had 35 attempts in the first half of yesterdays game with only like 12 attempts at rushing for the team.  Buff had the everlivin snot smacked out of them through the air.  Do you think Bellycheet gives a flying crap about getting Maroony carries?   eff no, he calls a game to win it FFS.  not forcing a struggling back into a stacked line over over and over, etc...

sure any given sunday, but the any given sunday we play NE whether its in the reg or playoffs, will end in the same...a loss for the Steelers.
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« Reply #5 on: Nov 19, 2007 at 18:11 »

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sure any given sunday, but the any given sunday we play NE whether its in the reg or playoffs, will end in the same...a loss for the Steelers.

See, I guess this is where I don't follow. If we're just giving up and crowning the Patriots' asses now, why even bother watching the rest of the games? Or, hell, why bother playing them?

The Patriots look like they're from another planet right now, but, the last three years the dominant team in the AFC regular season lost before the Super Bowl.

- There was that 15-1 team from Pittsburgh in 2004 that struggled through its playoff opener, then got crushed in the Championship game.

- There was that team from Indy in 2005 who started off 13-0 and was deemed unbeatable with home field advantage (tell me you don't remember Phil Simms', "The Steelers will need an out of body experience to win this game," comment?) that got crushed in its first playoff game (only to be kept alive by the worst call known to man and a fluke fumble from a usually reliable Hall of Fame back, but who's counting?)

- There was that 14-2(!) Chargers team in 2006 who got dropped in the first round. The number two seed failed to win a game last year as well.

So, I guess what i'm saying is, as long as the Steelers are still in first place with a shot at the playoffs...then yay us.
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« Reply #6 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 00:06 »

Until the Steelers lose their last game, I expect a Super Bowl Victory.  Yeah, the Pats are unbeatable, etc.  Fuck them.  They don't deserve to win another SB.  Karma is a bitch and they've been piling it on for a while.  Hopefully, the Steelers will get to cash in on that pile.

Looks like it might just be me and Dr. J the rest of the way.

 
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« Reply #7 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 01:51 »

I'm in with you guys too, the only problem is my glass half empty nature and also my unbelieveable optimism about this team...trust me, it's a bitch to live with and I know I'm not alone here...depending on the hour, i think we can crush the patriots or get destroyed and i'm not kidding about the "depending on the hour."  everyone around me knows that i'm obsessed and i'm pissed off because i was getting IM's and calls from motherfuckers who don't even like football about the loss to the Jets.  Living in NY sucks sometimes but hey, fuck them because we can win this shit.  I'm tired of playing down to these loser teams and getting beat.  it's the same shit as i posted about miami, i'm worried that we don't think we can lose to these "bad" teams and it's biting us in the ass.   If the run ain't working, pass the ball, just find a way to win.  why do we disappear with these lame ass bottom of the rung teams??  is it because they're psyching themselves up for us or are we just shit when it comes down to it?

ok, had to ramble...i love this stupid ass team....and beer
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« Reply #8 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 02:02 »

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Looks like it might just be me and Dr. J the rest of the way.



I'll smoke it with ya bro, we'll go to the loony bin together. I don't give a fuck.

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« Reply #9 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 06:52 »

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Until the Steelers lose their last game, I expect a Super Bowl Victory.  Yeah, the Pats are unbeatable, etc.  Fuck them.  They don't deserve to win another SB.  Karma is a bitch and they've been piling it on for a while.  Hopefully, the Steelers will get to cash in on that pile.

Looks like it might just be me and Dr. J the rest of the way.
i'm with ya! did we give up when the germans bombed pearl harbor?!?!
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Hercules50.
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« Reply #10 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 07:40 »

This is all nice and I agree with the general sentiment -- we CAN win any game, we can win the Super Bowl this year, and of course I will watch every game they play and root for them and hope for the best.

But the question isn't "what's possible?" Remember that it's entirely possible we'll lose every game, too. The question is, based on what we've seen this year, how good are we? Where are we? What kind of team is this?

It's frustrating because this team is the most inconsistent team in football (and was last year, too). Stretches of dominance -- long stretches in fact -- are matched by shorter, but still costly, stretches of pedestrian-to-shitty play.

My view is that this is about a 8-8 or 9-7 type of team that's played an easy schedule. I think our running game is a total fraud, the result of when we either get a lead or pass effectively. The OL is a shambles. And for all the good things that are happening on defense (the play of the linebackers and corners have been outstanding), there are lots of troubling things (Hampton and Polamalu are either playing hurt or they've regressed somehow; Anthony Smith is a disappointment).  
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« Reply #11 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 07:44 »

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i'm with ya! did we give up when the germans bombed pearl harbor?!?!

Those Germans had some seriously long-range bombers!

No, I'm not "quitting" or turning off the TV.  Although the Tivo is forever off-limits for Stiller games.  

You know that a large part of this is just post-loss frustration.  Not that I disagree with much of the analysis I've read, but this was just an especially frustrating loss, IMO.  I absolutely could not believe it.

Still, I'll be wearing the jersey to work on Monday just like always.  And I'm still searching for tickets for Dec. 16.
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« Reply #12 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 07:59 »

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Quote

Still, I'll be wearing the jersey to work on Monday just like always.  And I'm still searching for tickets for Dec. 16.
Is that a #10 Stewart jersey?  Not that there is anything wrong with it!!!!

 
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« Reply #13 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 08:08 »

SCREW YOU, Virgil!!!  It's a David Woodley, FYI!

(Actually it's Kreider)
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« Reply #14 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 08:22 »

The Jets just beat the Steelers . . . so doesn't that mean the Steelers can beat the Pats?  Anything can happen on any given Sunday.

It's not over.  The Pats can play lights out all through September-December for all I care . . . it's what happens in January and February that matters.

We have the inside track to a play off spot.  I'm not thinking draft until we're officially out of contention for the whole shebangabang.
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« Reply #15 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 08:57 »

Ha!  I knew all you loony-tunes mofos weren't quitting.  Were all of the losses crippling?  Yes.  Did they suck in the most major of ways?  Yes.  Were they all close and even contested until the end?  Pretty much.  They're 7-3 and holding the 3rd seed in the AFC.  That could actually improve, but that's pretty much where they are and is likely where they'll remain.

That will be a tough road in the playoffs.  But it is what it is.  We can wonder about all the possible tough scenarios, but I'd rather wonder about all those teams wanting to avoid the Steelers in the playoffs.  

These guys won't be an easy out.

 
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« Reply #16 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 09:02 »

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The Jets just beat the Steelers . . . so doesn't that mean the Steelers can beat the Pats?  Anything can happen on any given Sunday.

It's not over.  The Pats can play lights out all through September-December for all I care . . . it's what happens in January and February that matters.

We have the inside track to a play off spot.  I'm not thinking draft until we're officially out of contention for the whole shebangabang.
I agree with all that except the draft talk.  I'll stay hopeful that we can turn things around and go on a 2005-type run, but my opinion is that it's not happening this year for reasons I've stated before: wild inconsistency of play, except for the OL which consistently plays like shit.  I'm not tuning out, not saying anything's impossible.

But on the other hand, I'm not going to just be blindly rah-rah.  I've invested several decades of my life to being a Steeler fan, and I feel I have the right to critique the team when it plays poorly, or to point out ways I think they could improve for a more realistic future run at the Lombardi.  That's the case here: we have some terrific guys but are lacking at a few key positions.  It won't take a huge makeover, and maybe we'll have some of that 2005 magic dust again transform that soggy OL into some championship machine.

To talk about the draft, though, is just to be able to admit that, yes, maybe Sean Mahan isn't really up to the level of a Webby or a Dirt or even a Jeff Hartings.  Maybe Sean Mahan really does wind up on his ass a lot.  Or, that maybe Marvel Smith's Pro Bowl days are behind him, at least as a LT.  Maybe he'd be better suited to RT.  Maybe no once else on our team can really play LT for more than spot duty.  

If saying our DL is getting older, and without Aaron Smith we're less effective, means that I am giving up on the season, then, well, whatever.  I think we need some DL depth at DE and NT.  I guess that's a downer.  I guess it's a downer that we need a bunch of OL guys so Ben doesn't keep getting sacked 4 or 7 or 9 times a game.  It's anti-team to even broach the notion that if Ben weren't so mobile, maybe he'd be pushing Carr's sack record.

All I'm saying is that I'm keeping my expectations in check, hoping for the best, and not wearing any goddamn blinders.  I fully expect us to make the playoffs, probably now as a third seed after shitting the bed in NY, but whatever.  Rah rah.  Playoffs, yay.  I do not think we will beat NE in the regular season, but I will hope that the Jets game galvanizes this team the way close final loss to Cinci did in 2005.  I'll keep hoping that things come together, and maybe we can surprise the Pats in January.  But this is a message board, where opinions are offered, and my opinion is that we're just not there yet, and won't be there until we fix a few things.  

If anyone has a problem with that, meet me at the Orange Julius.  
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Hercules50.
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« Reply #17 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 09:43 »

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To talk about the draft, though, is just to be able to admit that, yes, maybe Sean Mahan isn't really up to the level of a Webby or a Dirt or even a Jeff Hartings.  Maybe Sean Mahan really does wind up on his ass a lot.  Or, that maybe Marvel Smith's Pro Bowl days are behind him, at least as a LT.  Maybe he'd be better suited to RT.  Maybe no once else on our team can really play LT for more than spot duty.  

If saying our DL is getting older, and without Aaron Smith we're less effective, means that I am giving up on the season, then, well, whatever.  I think we need some DL depth at DE and NT.  I guess that's a downer.  I guess it's a downer that we need a bunch of OL guys so Ben doesn't keep getting sacked 4 or 7 or 9 times a game.  It's anti-team to even broach the notion that if Ben weren't so mobile, maybe he'd be pushing Carr's sack record.
 
Keep in mind the level of competition, too.

Mahan let DeWayne Robertson look like Joe Greene. And DeWayne Robertson sucks.

 
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« Reply #18 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 10:12 »

See, threads like this annoy me, because it almost seems to me like an opportunity for certain posters to puff out their chests and say "Ha!  I'm more of a hardcore fan than you!"

No one here thinks the Steelers' season is "over"; that's an exaggerated point of view to make those people look like idiots.

However, I think a lot of people, myself included, realize the Steelers' chances of winning XLII took a STATISTICAL blow by losing that game, almost guaranteeing them of playing in the Wild Card round.

Yeah, upsets happen, but statistically, the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of teams that reach the Super Bowl do so by having a first round bye.  And THAT'S what people are upset about.  They are no less fans than anyone else here; they just logically know that our chances are now not as great statistically.

What's wrong with that?


.WiH.
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« Reply #19 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 11:33 »

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However, I think a lot of people, myself included, realize the Steelers' chances of winning XLII took a STATISTICAL blow by losing that game, almost guaranteeing them of playing in the Wild Card round.


None of this is true as the Steelers are guaranteed nothing right now, good or bad. It's not like they're four games behind the Colts with four to play.  
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« Reply #20 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 11:45 »

Well this forum has taken an ironic twist, definitely hypocritical.  I'm sure some of you thinkers will know what I'm talking about.  

 
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« Reply #21 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 11:49 »

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None of this is true as the Steelers are guaranteed nothing right now, good or bad. It's not like they're four games behind the Colts with four to play.

Colts' remaining schedule:

@ATL
JAX
@BAL
@OAK
HOU
TEN

Yes, anything can happen, but they've got a one game lead, have already played the division leaders on their schedule, and their three division games are all at home, and they won all 3 on the road.  Do you really see two or three losses there?  Sure, it's possible we go 5-2 or 6-1 and they go 3-3, but it's hardly likely.

No one's giving up, they're just expressing realistic expectations.  I predicted 10-6 in preseason, upgraded to 11-5 at the bye.  I'll stick with the 11-5, because I believe we'll be exactly where I thought we'd be after 12 games (9-3).  Looks to me like a #3 seed, maybe get to the AFCC.  That's not a bad season.  

Want to renew my hope for more?  Win the next two handily, then go to NE and give them a game.  Don't even have to win it, just make them sweat at the end enough to be concerned if they see us again.  Punch them in the mouth to show them we're not going to back down.  Send messages to the recievers that they better not come over the middle.  Get Brady's uniform dirty.  Move the ball freely against their defense, and cash in on opportunities.  Then I'll have hope for more than a playoff game or two.
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« Reply #22 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 11:54 »

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Well this forum has taken an ironic twist, definitely hypocritical.  I'm sure some of you thinkers will know what I'm talking about.
You were on to something, that's for sure.

That, plus the fact that since the team is maddeningly inconsistent, means everyone gets proved right and wrong, depending on the week.

I bet we beat Miami by 40 and then go to overtime against Cincy, or something.

Maybe this is all part of a genius plan by Tomlin?
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« Reply #23 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 11:57 »

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The Jets just beat the Steelers . . . so doesn't that mean the Steelers can beat the Pats?  Anything can happen on any given Sunday.

It's not over.  The Pats can play lights out all through September-December for all I care . . . it's what happens in January and February that matters.

We have the inside track to a play off spot.  I'm not thinking draft until we're officially out of contention for the whole shebangabang.
I agree with all that except the draft talk.
I didn't mean that we can't be realistic about our expectations, and I didn't mean thinking about the draft (as in who might be available and what our needs are) is inappropriate . . . I meant that it's a little early to start worrying about positioning for a draft pick.
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« Reply #24 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 12:02 »

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However, I think a lot of people, myself included, realize the Steelers' chances of winning XLII took a STATISTICAL blow by losing that game, almost guaranteeing them of playing in the Wild Card round.


None of this is true as the Steelers are guaranteed nothing right now, good or bad. It's not like they're four games behind the Colts with four to play.
Being 7-3 doesn't suggest any statistical blow; I'm sure plenty of Super Bowl winners were 7-3 or close to it 10 games in.  But there's certainly a qualitative analysis that says losing to a 1-8 Jets team should not happen, not combined with losses to other struggling clubs.

For those folks who are statistically inclined, the Football Outsiders site does still have us ranked top 5 in their DVOA rankings.  Hey, sounds about right, especially given the enormous numerical rift that follows the Patriots.  But here's a stat that's dogged us all season:  
Quote
VARIANCE measures the statistical variance of the team's weekly DVOA performance. Teams are ranked from least consistent (#1, highest variance) to most consistent (#32, smallest variance).

Guess where the Steelers rank?  We're #2, second only to the Arizona Cardinals (who are probably there due to their issues at QB).  You can't be that up and down and realistically expect great things: it shows how often we're shooting ourselves in the foot, and without a bye week in the playoffs, the odds are just that much better that we do exactly that.

The UPSIDE to that variance stat is that if we're #4 in overall DVOA, and #2 in variance, once we become consistent we could easily be as good as the Pats.  I just find it an illogical assertion to suggest that this sort of housecleaning happens in 6 weeks.  We did it to a degree in 2005, which (like the Arizona situation) was due in large part to Ben being injured mid-season, as well as pass defense issues.  But in 2005 our variance ranked 11th at season's end, and while that's not great, it's certainly not the same as being #2 (18.2% vs. 36.1%, or in other words, we're about twice as up and down as that 2005 season).

Also, using the FO metrics, it's worth noting that we had the 9th best special teams overall in 2005; this year it's 25th "best."  I don't need to remind anyone of the importance of special teams, or their relation to playoff games involving the Patriots.

Finally, if you are a stats geek and you want to assess our playoff and Super Bowl chances, well FO has that worked out too.  According to FO, we have a 97.8% chance of making the playoffs, with the most likely scenarios being a 3rd seed (49.3%) or a second seed (30.9%).  That seems intuitively correct.  

On Super Bowl odds, I think most people would over-estimate the Patriots' chances.  FO gives the breakdown this way:

NE - 36.0%
Dallas - 20.9%
Indy - 11.8%
GB - 11.3%
Pit - 13.9%

Again, I have no way to check their calculations, but intuitively 1 in 7 chances for us seems about right.  (Cleveland's at 0.6%!)

So is 1 in 7, however accurate or pleasing to those mathematical parts of our brain, a good thing, a bad thing, or a wait and see thing?  To what degree does a shitty performance inform those odds?  If we hadn't crapped against the Jets, would it mean we're a better team?  Sure.  Since we did, could it be an anomaly that means nothing down a hot stretch run?  Sure.  But as an indicator of future results, I think the Jets game -- especially juxtaposed with a game where we manhandled the Ravens -- shows that we're too erratic, and still have some uncorrected (and posssibly uncorrectable) flaws.

While we can't be certain of this team's future 2007 performance, we can sort of "get a feeling for it."  That feeling may turn out to be right or wrong, but we're all entitled to that opinion.  Our reasoning in support of that opinion may drive discussion, and emotion, but it obviously doesn't affect what happens on the field.  

So let's let the Steelers show us who's right.
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« Reply #25 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 12:09 »

BTW, I still think we're probably a top 5 team.  It's just that the level of play to date, with injuries factored into the longview, would seem to indicate something like this:

NE

[big gap]

Some combination of Indy, Pitt, Dallas, GB, and possibly Jax

[another gap]

Some combo of TB, Tenn, NYG, Cleve, SD, and (IMO) Houston

[big gap]

Everyone else.

I think Houston comes back with Johnson in the fold.  I don't see many teams really "moving up in class" or moving down.  Maybe some folks disagree with which teams I've classed together, but I think most would agree that the basic setup, NE far above the rest, then about 5 solid contenders, and then a substrate of solid-to-OK teams, and then a bunch of dopes, is pretty close to accurate.

Problem is, we lost to three dopes.
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« Reply #26 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 12:30 »

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See, threads like this annoy me, because it almost seems to me like an opportunity for certain posters to puff out their chests and say "Ha!
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« Reply #27 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 13:11 »

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However, I think a lot of people, myself included, realize the Steelers' chances of winning XLII took a STATISTICAL blow by losing that game, almost guaranteeing them of playing in the Wild Card round.


None of this is true as the Steelers are guaranteed nothing right now, good or bad. It's not like they're four games behind the Colts with four to play.
Actually, you're wrong.

The statistics support the fact that teams with a first-round bye have a statistically higher chance of appearing in/winning the Super Bowl over teams that don't.

Does losing help our chances at getting that bye, especially since the Colts are now a game ahead of us?

Nope.

I know you like to disagree with me oftentimes for the sake of it, but unless you can somehow show the board how losing DOESN'T hurt your playoff seeding/chances, you're are the one that is incorrect.


.WiH.
« Last Edit: Nov 20, 2007 at 13:12 by Winters in Holland » Logged

I don't care if Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy are black. Good for them. But that doesn't change the way I feel about them. The longer we keep looking at guys like Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith as "BLACK HEAD COACHES" as opposed to just "coaches" the longer race will continue to be a problem. --DoctorJohnnyFever
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« Reply #28 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 16:43 »

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The statistics support the fact that teams with a first-round bye have a statistically higher chance of appearing in/winning the Super Bowl over teams that don't.

That's all well and good, but the last I checked the bye weeks haven't been handed out yet. The Colts are playing the rest of their season without their second-best player on defense, they currently have two backups starting at the offensive tackle positions and one healthy wide receiver out of their top three. And what's the status of Dallas Clark? I don't know, but he hasn't played in a while. They nearly lost to Kansas City at home.  

There's still six weeks left to play, a lot of shit can go down in six weeks. Good or bad.

And this thread wasn't even directed at anyone in particular here, more towards the national media and call-in show people who were crowning the Steelers asses last week and now talking about the draft (Tony Kornheiser, Bob from Blawnox, etc. etc. etc.).


 
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« Reply #29 on: Nov 20, 2007 at 18:37 »

The OL doesn't appear to be getting better.  But there were big concerns heading into training camp so it should come as no surprise that it's rearing it's head now.  Heck, we're lucky it bumbled itself along for as long as it did.  

The $$$ is right for Simmons, considering last year's market, but the guy isn't a top notch guard.  So you get what you pay for in this scenario.  

Mahan has done worse than I thought he would but if he could shift over to guard next year, with someone or anyone coming to aid OC, his $$$ v. performance is right on.

I didn't think Max Starks was awful last year.  Colon hasn't looked good lately.  Luckily the 2008 draft appears heavy at OT.

Unfortunately, it's light, Mich Ultra light, at OG.  We missed the boat on 2007's crop, with most if not all available at 1.15.  

Still, the Steelers have done a heck of a lot better this year than I expected.  I thought a 8-8 season would be decent as I expected the transition to be rockier.  

Tomlin hasn't gotten a challenge right yet.  But he has done a good job with coaching Ben into a leadership role.  He's helped to keep Faneca's situation from escalating to a lengthy hold out.  And so on.  More good than bad IMO.

The Steelers lost to a 1-8 Jets team.  They missed tackles on defense and special teams.  Arians had some bad play calling late in the game (and I haven't mentioned much negative about Arians).  It was a bad game.  A game that we should have won had the team executed proper fundamentals and some of the coaching staff called a better game.  The OL isn't going to play better.  So Arians must figure out a way to work around what he's got up front.  Ben has done it all year, albeit in an improv manner.  

It's tough to select a pinnacle statement for this post.  So I'll end it by saying that things could be worse....you could be the person I'm firing tomorrow prior to going on vacation for the Thanksgiving holiday.  Then again, even that could be worse...it could be the Christmas holiday.  It's all about perspective.  
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« Reply #30 on: Nov 21, 2007 at 04:25 »

SCacalaki works at a factory where they make Asian blow-up dolls.

Line operator #45A, known by his co-workers as "Rusty", was putting the air valves in the wrong places, leading to some climax-killing deflations for the perverts of the world.



.WiH.
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I don't care if Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy are black. Good for them. But that doesn't change the way I feel about them. The longer we keep looking at guys like Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith as "BLACK HEAD COACHES" as opposed to just "coaches" the longer race will continue to be a problem. --DoctorJohnnyFever
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« Reply #31 on: Nov 21, 2007 at 09:35 »

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...Tomlin hasn't gotten a challenge right yet.  But he has done a good job with coaching Ben into a leadership role.  He's helped to keep Faneca's situation from escalating to a lengthy hold out.  And so on.  More good than bad IMO....

...It's all about perspective.
You're right on perspective wrt Tomlin.  After all, this team could easily finish 11-5 (same as Cowher's first year) and at worst is probably looking at 10-6.   The perspective part is looking at the Chargers (preseason's #2 or #3 AFC darlings), who are staring down the barrel of not making the playoffs at all.

My hypothetical question (way off topic, but WTH) is if the Chargers had hired Tomlin instead of Nervous Norv, would the Chargers be as bad off as they are now?
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« Reply #32 on: Nov 21, 2007 at 12:11 »

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My hypothetical question (way off topic, but WTH) is if the Chargers had hired Tomlin instead of Nervous Norv, would the Chargers be as bad off as they are now?

No, they wouldn't.

For the life of me, I can't understand why NFL teams so often want to buy a used tire when they could get a brand new set for a lot less $$$.  Veteran coaches demand higher salaries, and rarely do they improve on what they've already done.  If they were great, they seem to regress in new roles (JJohnson, Mike Holmgren, Denny Green, Art Shell, Joe Gibbs).  If they sucked, they usually continue to suck in the new job (Wannstadt, Jauron, Norv, Seifert, Capers).  

There is a reason why the Steelers have not hired a has-been/never-was to fill their coaching vacancies over the last 38 years.  It may also be why they've only had three such vacancies in the last 38 years.

Again off the subject, but does anyone think that Noll's legacy from the 80s would have changed dramatically if the Steelers had drafted Marino?  I mean, they certainly weren't great, but they went to the playoffs and won division titles with the likes of Malone, Stoudt, Woodley, and Brister.  That's worse than the list of Cowher's pre-Ben titles.
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« Reply #33 on: Nov 21, 2007 at 12:26 »

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Again off the subject, but does anyone think that Noll's legacy from the 80s would have changed dramatically if the Steelers had drafted Marino?  I mean, they certainly weren't great, but they went to the playoffs and won division titles with the likes of Malone, Stoudt, Woodley, and Brister.  That's worse than the list of Cowher's pre-Ben titles.
This team would have competed for Super Bowls with Marino, no doubt, in 80s. Huge missed opportunity.

Most of those mid-80s teams had good defenses, very good running games (especially considering no one feared our QBs), and very good receivers.

The missing element was QB, where we were just dreadful, and yet in spite of this had some decent years. The offensive line struggled a bit, too, as Noll was a bit stuck on short and mobile in an era when hogs were coming to the fore.

But yeah -- the Steelers draft Marino and Noll might have won multiple Super Bowls in the 1980s. I wouldn't say that about any other QB, since Marino seemed the most "purely great" -- that is, not the beneficiary of a system in which he was the perfect fit.  
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« Reply #34 on: Nov 21, 2007 at 14:09 »

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Until the Steelers lose their last game, I expect a Super Bowl Victory.  Yeah, the Pats are unbeatable, etc.  Fuck them.  They don't deserve to win another SB.  Karma is a bitch and they've been piling it on for a while.  Hopefully, the Steelers will get to cash in on that pile.

Looks like it might just be me and Dr. J the rest of the way.
Dude, just cause I haven't posted in a few days, don't leave me off the Optimism Train!!

I'm with Finny in that I'd trade almost the entire O-line for just Dirt right now (he's in town, I could check with him...), but other than that....I BELIEVE!!!

 :towel:  :towel:  :towel:





Unless we lose to Miami.  Then I might have to rethink that position..... :blink:  
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