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Author Topic: FUCK YOU, ARIANS!!!!!  (Read 4400 times)
bucc-o-pain
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« Reply #20 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 11:23 »

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No I know the Jags OL is much better than the STeelers.
« Last Edit: Jan 06, 2008 at 11:24 by bucc-o-pain » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 11:30 »

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No I know the Jags OL is much better than the STeelers.
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bucc-o-pain
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« Reply #22 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 11:42 »

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No I know the Jags OL is much better than the STeelers.
« Last Edit: Jan 06, 2008 at 11:43 by bucc-o-pain » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 12:02 »

Wow, this call is going down in history like Neil to Foster in the EZ, AFCC '94.

First of, there was a big, big difference between the Jags 4th down call and the Stillers 3rd down call. Namely it was 4th and 2 for the Jags and 3rd and a long 6 for the Steelers. If it was 3rd and 2 for the Steelers I actually like a BR run. He could get 2 yards. Just not 7. And saying Ben's got more rushing yards for the season doesn't take into account that Ben's OL breaks down on nearly every passing play and he is usually running for his life. Garrard, on the other hand, was either handing the ball off or getting good pass pro.

The call I really didn't like, and the one that set up the infamous 3rd down call, was running Dookie left for -1 yards on 2nd down. If there was ever a time to go play action it was on second down. You've got Holmes out wide right with Miller on the strong side and Heat can either go into the middle zone vacated by the biting LB's or take it towards the sideline into the area vacated by Holmes running a vertical route. Heat would be wide open for at least the first down.

That didn't happen, so up comes 3rd and a long 6. Now Nameless has to take into consideration many factors. And I believe JAX called TO after Dookie's run so Nameless and Tomlin had time to go over this. Conventional wisdon says play it safe, no turnovers, burn the clock and TO's, let the D whose been playing relatively well handle it. Factors that had to have influenced conventional wisdom there are: the Steelers coverage unit had already allowed a big play and were susceptable to a good return. In other words, before you let your D handle it, there was a ST play. The Steelers were only up by 1. A FG beats you. Granted its at Heinz Field, but no TD needed. This particular team had already beat you with a last drive this same month. Should you really willing give the ball back to them? Your QB has been basically unstoppable in the second half. They can't cover your TE. They can't cover your possession WR and your downfield threat has already scored a 39 yard TD on a slant route.

Its a gutsy call and if Ben throws a pick there its hailed as the worst call ever. But not by me. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Ben's clearly our best player and sometimes you just got to go with that and live with the consequences. Surely right now BR is not happy that at the crux of the game, the team ran a QB sweep. Does anyone think the Patriots would have run a QB sweep on 3rd and 6 to possibly ice the game?
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« Reply #24 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 13:13 »

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No I know the Jags OL is much better than the STeelers.
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« Reply #25 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 13:30 »

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Outcomes determine our opinion of playcalls far more than we want to admit.

While you have a point, you also have to play the percentages.  And a QB sneak left for a 6 yard pickup on 3rd down has about as much legitimacy as a fuckin victory formation kneel in the same damn situation.
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« Reply #26 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 15:55 »

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The bottom line is you don't take the chance of that play working at that moment. You make a call for a pass from the arm that got you where you were at.

To "catch them off gaurd" at the pinacle of the game? That is week. You go with a play that has the best chance of getting you 6 yards. BA had an entire season to draw on for that one 6 yard play. He failed mentally. There is zero excuse for this at that point in the game. It should cost him his job.

Oh yeah, please do not compare it to the Garrard run. The jags have run that delayed draw (either qb or rb) all season. In fact that have run it against the Steelers multiple times in the last two games! The fact that DL didn't expect it is fodder for a whole new thread.
I don't see what's weak about this argument.  How many times have we driven down the field only to fizzle in the RZ?  You can't assume that what works between the 20s will work there.  Now I've been highly critical of Arians getting "too cute" in the RZ -- slow-developing plays that are too fucking baroque and not crisp little blitzkrieg shots -- but I thought the QB sweep was potentially a decent gambit.  OK, not the play I would have run in that situation.  But consider what's going to work in that down and distance.

Maybe it is using the arm that got you there.  But unless you're talking about the Patriots, completing 80% of their passes in a drive and seeming to be unstoppable, you're still taking a gamble.  Our passing game has some nice zip to it sometimes, and other times not.  So when you drive the field passing, and the other team suspects you'll come out passing, trying to catch them off guard isn't bullshit.  Especially when we've seen Ben pick up decent chunks of yardage with his legs and his ability to lay it all out there for the TD.

So basically, I like the spirit of that, the aggression and the chess mindset, but it's not what I would have called, or what I think a lot of folks would have called.  But it's not going to make me say we should fire the guy.  The run-run-run BS at the end of the game harkens back to the Cowher days and is far more worthy of criticism, given time on the clock, but we haven't shown a good endgame since Bettis and Duce were here and healthy.  Again, I can look to the OL for the root cause of that.
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« Reply #27 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 16:08 »

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No, I know plenty about football having played it, that said I don't know the Steelers nomenclature for the plays they run.


The fact of the matter is, they could have ran any pass play in that situation other than a damn screen pass, that would have been a better call that the shitfest Arians called for.


I am used to this though, Arians sucks.
I don't believe I EVER said you didn't know football, so chill.  I don't know the Steelers nomenclature either.  All I asked for was a specific play you or anyone here would have called, with the idea that we tend to run certain RZ plays with regularity, and there are some that I'd be on the lookout for as an opposing DC.  That's all.  But folks here complaining saying "anything else would have been better," well, like what?  What works as a high percentage play that we execute well in the RZ and isn't completely predictable?

I still think Arians is absolutely no worse than Whiz or Mularkey, or Earhardt or Gailey, and is certainly better than Gilbride was or that other doofus I can't think of who had a year here, Sherman?  IMO, Arians, Whiz, and Mularkey have similar strengths and weaknesses, but at least Arians has helped turn this offense into a more Ben-centric one, for the necessary better, IMO.  There is no dominant run game, that time has passed, until we re-stock the line.  Is it coincidental that Arians oversaw Ben's best season?  He's certainly not the only reason Ben did so well, but fuck, he's part of it.

All I am saying is, let's build on the good from this year, study film and eliminate the BS.  Is that asking too much for a first-year OC and a first-year HC?  Imagine if Ben and Willie actually do better next year, even incrementally, say 5% or 10% better statistically?  Do that math.  I think having the consistency of retaining BA would foster that.  And again, while everyone's shitting over a handful of play calls, Ben is getting rocked each and every game because of that OL, which is 60-80% shit.  Even Essex, who had a decent game, was getting beaten.  The middle is soft as a middle age beer gut.  We have a guard playing RT and no franchise LT to speak of.  You're saying that bolstering the line wouldn't increase the effectiveness of BA's playcalling?  How's he to know which part of the Xs and Os is going to fail on that fucking line?  Even some of the OCs people have been mentioning here lately, Martz and Cameron, are going to have half a dozen clunker plays that will leave you asking WTF they were thinking.  I can't think of a "perfect" OC, but a great line, a great QB, great WRs and RBs will make any OC look better.  And we're almost there.  All but the line, IMO, and maybe one more playmaker WR or RB.
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« Reply #28 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 16:08 »

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No I know the Jags OL is much better than the STeelers.  And yes, I was also completely unsurprised at either the Jags or Steelers call.  I also know that Ben has more yards running than Gerrard this year.  I am also not defending Arians' call - I also hated it.  But the difference between bad call (ours) and good calls (theirs) is largely because it worked.
Bingo.

Let me play devil's advocate.  You give me the call you would have sent in, and be somewhat specific in terms of formation.  I have three formations written down, which could probably yield about 7-10 different plays, depending.  And I'm sure defensive coordinators would anticipate a few more than that, but this is off the top of my head.  

I think Arians was trying to catch the other team off guard.  Let's see how you do with playcalling.
I would have called a run-pass option to the right.  Ben can keep it if he likes, but if an easy throw is there than take it.
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bucc-o-pain
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« Reply #29 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 16:51 »

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Especially when we've seen Ben pick up decent chunks of yardage with his legs and his ability to lay it all out there for the TD.

We have only seen that when plays break down and there is room to run. Not on a designed play.

I will say it again, Arians had a seasons worth of plays to figure out what was the best way to gain 6 yards. There is no way you don't play the odds in that situation. Running Ben to the outside behind a green left tackle was not a viable play call.
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