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Author Topic: Tomlin's role in playcalling  (Read 823 times)
msdmnr2002
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« on: Jan 05, 2008 at 23:34 »

Amidst the fire Arians diatribes some have said that Tomlin has to take some of the blame because he's the head coach.  Agreed, in part.  If the game plan is bad from the outset, Tomlin's partly to blame.  If adjustments aren't made during the game, he's partly to blame.  However, on individual playcalls in critical situations, I think that falls squarely on the shoulders of the man calling the plays.  You only have 40 seconds to get the play called and run.  If Tomlin hears something that's crap, he really doesn't have time to jump in and say, "wait, that sucks.  Run this instead."  Not without either burning timeouts, taking penalties, or having Ben rush a play without a chance to look over the defense.  Those situations are where we have the most glaring errors, and those situations fall on Arians.

I've never really jumped into the fire/keep discussion all that much, but tonight convinced me.  Arians needs to go.  He may not be fired.  But if he stays, THEN the bullshit calls fall on Tomlin, because he had the chance to correct the problem.
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steelerfaninCO
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« Reply #1 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 00:02 »

I agree that Tomlin can't change most of the calls that idiot, who is dead to me and shall remain nameless, makes, but didn't JAX call a TO after Dookie's 2nd down run? If thats the case, Tomlin must have OKed that play. Its kinda shocking that was the best play they could come up with, especially since the JAGS couldn't cover #10 on a slant, #83, or #86 toboot....The buck ultimately stops with Tomlin though. He'll learn. He was pumped on the sideline in the 4th and he may have gotten carried away with the 2 point conversions but he is/was a rookie HC. Going  on 4th and 12 was big, and going for it on 4th down on the goaline took some big brass ones too, considering a FG brought you within 2 with 6-7 minutes to play....He now needs to concentrate on getting a decent OL and bolstering the DL and safety...
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jonzr
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« Reply #2 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 01:20 »

In the press conference after the game, Tomlin defended the first 2pt attempt.  As he recalled, there were about 6 mins left.  Uh, no, dude.  There were 10:30 left - WAY TO SOON to be going for two.

He said he was just using the chart that everyone has.  

Tomlin, let me tell you something that'll help you for the rest of your career.  At the top of the "Going for 2" chart place the following words:  Never to be used with more than 3 minutes remaining.  Ever.  Never.  Got it?  

Yeah, if you're down by 24 or something with 10:30 to go then maybe you need to do it, but I still don't like it.  You just don't know what will transpire.

Whoever it was that made that first 2pt call pissed this game away and should step up and say so.  I suspect that it was Tomlin, and he should apologize to his team for losing their game.


 
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Big Virgil
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« Reply #3 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 09:56 »

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I agree that Tomlin can't change most of the calls that idiot, who is dead to me and shall remain nameless, makes, but didn't JAX call a TO after Dookie's 2nd down run? If thats the case, Tomlin must have OKed that play. Its kinda shocking that was the best play they could come up with, especially since the JAGS couldn't cover #10 on a slant, #83, or #86 toboot....The buck ultimately stops with Tomlin though. He'll learn. He was pumped on the sideline in the 4th and he may have gotten carried away with the 2 point conversions but he is/was a rookie HC. Going  on 4th and 12 was big, and going for it on 4th down on the goaline took some big brass ones too, considering a FG brought you within 2 with 6-7 minutes to play....He now needs to concentrate on getting a decent OL and bolstering the DL and safety...
Ward made a heck of a catch, and was held like a mother on the 4th down play,but hate that fucking play almost as much as the #7 sweep.  Those were probably the only 2 times this year that play was converted.  I guess that play call is personal opinion, so I can't bash Tomlin or the limp dick main play caller too much.

One thing I did like, against St Louis or Balty was Kemo in the backfield as the fullback.  I wanted to see that last night at the goal line.
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oblongatta
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« Reply #4 on: Jan 07, 2008 at 13:55 »

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In the press conference after the game, Tomlin defended the first 2pt attempt.  As he recalled, there were about 6 mins left.  Uh, no, dude.  There were 10:30 left - WAY TO SOON to be going for two.

He said he was just using the chart that everyone has.  

Tomlin, let me tell you something that'll help you for the rest of your career.  At the top of the "Going for 2" chart place the following words:  Never to be used with more than 3 minutes remaining.  Ever.  Never.  Got it?  

Yeah, if you're down by 24 or something with 10:30 to go then maybe you need to do it, but I still don't like it.  You just don't know what will transpire.

Whoever it was that made that first 2pt call pissed this game away and should step up and say so.  I suspect that it was Tomlin, and he should apologize to his team for losing their game.
btw that really bugged me.  As much as I like Tomlin, he shit the bed on that 2-point attempt call.. Then rather than admit it, he first prentended like he didn't know what was being asked about, then went the route of trying to say there was less time than 10 minutes and once it was clear he was talking about the 2nd attempt and the question was about the first, he went with the well if I had a crystal ball and knew what would happen then I would have kicked defense.

Not once did he offer a defense other that the "chart" and coincidentally he said that was the reason when he was mistakenly referring to the 2nd attempt.

 
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padgfrombf
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« Reply #5 on: Jan 07, 2008 at 16:29 »

And IIRC, there are a couple of versions of that chart, one that has time and score and another that just has score late in the game.  He must've had the latter.

Problem there also is the chart is based on a 50-50 shot at making it.  With only a 20% chance, or whatever it is from the 12 yard line, I'm sure that weighs heavily against going for the deuce.

It may have been the wrong decision, but it's one that Tomlin had to make fairly quickly, and I'm certain he'll have that strategy corrected in the offseason.  

I had more of a problem with the Steelers trying to take the air out of the ball at the end, which is a recurring pattern from the Browns and Jets game.  These were the only three games that the Steelers had the ball and a narrow late lead.  Browns:  Run, Run, Run, Punt.  Jets:  Run, Run, Pass (sacked), Punt.  Jax:  Run, Run, Run, Punt.
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oblongatta
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« Reply #6 on: Jan 07, 2008 at 16:59 »

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I had more of a problem with the Steelers trying to take the air out of the ball at the end, which is a recurring pattern from the Browns and Jets game.  These were the only three games that the Steelers had the ball and a narrow late lead.  Browns:  Run, Run, Run, Punt.  Jets:  Run, Run, Pass (sacked), Punt.  Jax:  Run, Run, Run, Punt.
Yep. I turned to my brother and said the Steelers have to pass here.  If they don't and try to run it out, Jax will get the ball back with plenty of time left.  Of course we both knew that they weren't going to throw the ball.

Sure that worked in the past, but they had a big Bettis against a tired D  and if not, they had a defense that could stop the other team.

 
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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #7 on: Jan 07, 2008 at 18:23 »

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Quote

I had more of a problem with the Steelers trying to take the air out of the ball at the end, which is a recurring pattern from the Browns and Jets game.  These were the only three games that the Steelers had the ball and a narrow late lead.  Browns:  Run, Run, Run, Punt.  Jets:  Run, Run, Pass (sacked), Punt.  Jax:  Run, Run, Run, Punt.
Yep. I turned to my brother and said the Steelers have to pass here.  If they don't and try to run it out, Jax will get the ball back with plenty of time left.  Of course we both knew that they weren't going to throw the ball.

Sure that worked in the past, but they had a big Bettis against a tired D  and if not, they had a defense that could stop the other team.
I've defended Arians and Tomlin, but frankly this is where I got that knot in my gut that turned out to be the fucking truth of the matter: we coulda won but didn't.  I'm just not quite as Draconian as some folks, most folks, here and elsewhere.
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aj_law
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« Reply #8 on: Jan 08, 2008 at 14:51 »

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Amidst the fire Arians diatribes some have said that Tomlin has to take some of the blame because he's the head coach.  Agreed, in part.  If the game plan is bad from the outset, Tomlin's partly to blame.  If adjustments aren't made during the game, he's partly to blame.  However, on individual playcalls in critical situations, I think that falls squarely on the shoulders of the man calling the plays.  You only have 40 seconds to get the play called and run.  If Tomlin hears something that's crap, he really doesn't have time to jump in and say, "wait, that sucks.  Run this instead."  Not without either burning timeouts, taking penalties, or having Ben rush a play without a chance to look over the defense.  Those situations are where we have the most glaring errors, and those situations fall on Arians.
 
That's about the size of it.

I'd be curious to know what the MO for that situation is.  Do HCs that normally don't say squat about offensive playcalling stick their noses in the last second and tell the QB to run something else??

I'd be very surprised if that's the case.  Why have an OC then?  Why not just call the plays yourself?

I think they might have input as to the overall philosophy of the gameplan, but putting a fingerprint on a specific call?  I think it falls mostly on the OC.

I'd loved to have been a fly in that huddle because there's no way that Ben could've been gung ho about that decision either.
« Last Edit: Jan 08, 2008 at 14:52 by aj_law » Logged

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