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Author Topic: FUCK YOU OVER-REACTING ASSHOLES  (Read 2913 times)
SCacalaki
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« Reply #10 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 14:05 »

I mentioned something in the gamethread about the gaffes last night not being surprising.  It's what we had seen during the 1-3 stretch to end the season (.  It's what we had seen during the entire season (STs).  It's what we knew coming into the season (OL stunk).  

But excuse me for not jumping onboard the "fix it" wagon, expecting 2008 to be an improvement.  

How exactly is STs fixed?  It's been a nasty sore going on at least six years.  Different coaches, different personnel, similar results in critical games.  Does Chidi Iwuoma really deserve THAT much credit?  

How is it fixed?  Tomlin certainly gave it a decent shot prior to the start of the season.  Hired a new STs coach, along with a STs assistant coach.  Spent enough time on STs during camp to cause even STs ace Clint Kreiwaldt to complain.  Tomlin put starters on STs.  He signed another STs ace Marquis Cooper (see last night's return by MJD).  

What else can be done, other than the firing of Lig and his asst., hoping to finally get the "right" STs coach, and altering personnel?

So far as the draft goes, color me unenthusiastic as that being the golden road to glory.  Timmons was the wrong pick, plain and simple.  That the Steelers didn't have enough foresight to draft a guy like Grubbs, with the foresight originating from both of their starting guards up for FA after the season, gives me little confidence for a quick fix at OL not being a detriment to the team's other needs  The elephant in the room this off-season is DE.  The baby elephant is free safety.

Free agency.... the Steelers always seem much more cautious and thoughtful than they do in the overall draft.  But OL comes at a premium.  At least the good ones do.  But if there is hope for the 2008 Steelers, I believe it comes via FA and not the draft.

I admit that Mahan fell well short of my expectations.  Maybe his best position is guard.  Maybe it's on another team.  

Lots of fans didn't like Arians prior to the season and feel vindicated.  I've got no beef with them venting.  

I can't say I have a strong opinion one way or the other.  Remove Arians...does Ben get set back another year?  Though, Ben seems to do better calling his own plays IMO.

Quote
we were NOT, and we all knew we were NOT.

And we won't be in 2008.  

I don't believe I'm being unrealistically negative.  I think this team lacks talent beyond Roethlisberger, Holmes, Parker, and Miller on offense, and Hampton and possibly Woodley on defense.  I don't think that is corrected with one off-season.  

I expected no better than a 9-7 team and a wildcard placement.  

Although an 8-8 record in 2008 may suggest an improved team v. a 10-6 2007 record, considering the 2008 schedule.  

I didn't anticipate Tomlin's difficulties with making in-game decisions such as challenges, timeouts, etc.  But I think he'll be a good coach as he gains more experience.  

I didn't realize the lack of talent until this past off-season when guys like McFadden and Ant. Smith weren't able to yet beat out the incumbents.  

The Steelers probably weren't as good as their 10-6 record, AFCN champ status this year.  

Ben improved, Tomlin showed some good with the bad, and Holmes stepped up big time.  

The defense took giant leaps backwards, STs still sucks, and OL is a mess.  

That's where we are.  
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padgfrombf
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« Reply #11 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 14:08 »

Finny, I'll play Ol' Scratch to your Dan'l Webster on the 3:00 to go playcalling.  With Jax having 3 TO's in hand, running the clock was not the prime directive, the PS absolutely needed to get two first downs:

Jax pretty much stayed in Cover 2 all night.  Their only real defensive wrinkle was a continuous rotation of Front 7 personnel.

1D-10, Najeh over RG for 5.  I was fine with that.  Even if he only got 3 yards, it left a manageable down-and-distance and has Jax thinking run.

2D-5, run bunched trips right, Ben behind center, rolling pocket right.  That play is designed to beat a Cover 2, and the Jags had problems with that formation all night.  Ben can throw, run, or if the play breaks down, he's outta the pocket and can throw it OOB.  My opinion is that the clock is not a factor yet.

3D-5, let's assume a Matt Spaeth drop on D2.  Shotgun, start out trips right as in D2, motion Hines or Holmes left.  Slant pass to Holmes, or if the LB is reading the Holmes route, have Hines sit down for five on the opposite side of the LB.

What I didn't like about the BBR draw is that it went to our weakness at LT and there wasn't a real pass option in there.

I had a long post over at BSG with misgivings about the game and the PS.  Like most issues, there is good and bad.  Arians had a great game plan for passing the ball.  He was able to devise a scheme to beat the Jax defense, even with BBR's occasional gaffes and a patchwork line.  It's just when you get to specific game situations that Arians goes brain dead.  The PSO got away from offense in general in Q2.  All those fade patterns at the goal line.  Don't know if it's a lack of focus, but it ends up Ray Handley bad.  It's like his playcalling in the 2002 Browns game.  Wonderful offensive effort until the last couple series, capped by an inexplicable long out pattern call to Northcutt on 3rd down with the Steelers out of timeouts.  Stategic horror show that cost the Browns the game.  

FWIW, I think Arians is a wonderful WR coach and is miles ahead of a lot of guys in designing a passing game plan.  I would put value his pregame input.  It's just that he's not the complete package as OC.
« Last Edit: Jan 06, 2008 at 14:11 by padgfrombf » Logged
pensodyssey
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« Reply #12 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 14:46 »

I liked your post overall, Scac, although I'm probably a little more optimistic about the current squad than you.

Still, I can't figure out what this means:

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The Steelers probably weren't as good as their 10-6 record, AFCN champ status this year.

Well, we were a better team than Cincinatti, Cleveland and Baltimore.  You can argue we won a weak division, but you can't say we weren't as good as champions of that division.  Semantics maybe, but it helps deal with the disappointment of the fial game.
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SCacalaki
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« Reply #13 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 14:58 »

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I liked your post overall, Scac,

You'll probably be one of the few.

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although I'm probably a little more optimistic about the current squad than you.

I do consider myself the Eeyore of the board.

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Well, we were a better team than Cincinatti, Cleveland and Baltimore. You can argue we won a weak division, but you can't say we weren't as good as champions of that division. Semantics maybe, but it helps deal with the disappointment of the fial game.

Come on college grad!

My base point is we weren't as good as our record indicates.  10-6 got us into the playoffs.  More importantly, the AFCN title gave us a #4 seed and a game at home v. being a wildcard.  That's where the significance ends IMO.

The AFCN champ crown did not adequately reflect our abilities v. the competition we would face in the playoffs.  Maybe we were better than the Titans.

I don't see winning the AFCN crown this year as showing us rebounding as a team from the 2006 season.  I don't see it as a trend forward for us.  But this is probably where your optimism and my pessimism diverge.  

AFCN champs is a nice token I guess, moreso had at the time of beating Cleveland and Cinci twice than meaning anything to me now.
« Last Edit: Jan 06, 2008 at 14:59 by SCacalaki » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 15:21 »

I dunno...maybe it's one of those things that sounds good in your brain but doesn't make sense when written.  

 
« Last Edit: Jan 06, 2008 at 15:21 by SCacalaki » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 16:07 »

I agree with Finny, but would argue that we are looking at 2 years - not next year.  Even if we draft two OL and they turn out OK, it is unreasonable to expect that impact immediately.  The 08 season is going to look like this past one, with the real improvement occurring in 09.
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« Reply #16 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 16:11 »

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I'm still quite pleased with the result of this season. Last night was heartbreaking, but we still had a chance no one thought we would have before the season. And we did it shorthanded, with obvious flaws, and a rookie head coach who made some rookie mistakes.

I'm disappointed we lost, yes, but i'm not upset or disappointed in the season. If that makes any sense.
Makes perfect sense.  We don't always agree, DJF, but we're solid on that.  
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« Reply #17 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 16:18 »

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Whiny ass bitches are a given on a forum like this. Every game we lose people want players, coaches, front office personnel fired. We've just gotta get used to it. Not the losing. The whiny ass bitching.
I understand why people are upset and venting.  I've sometimes over-reacted, and maybe was too hard on Whiz, too hard on Cowher, who knows.  But as I said in another thread, people have been asking for Martz or Cameron or some other unspecified mystical OC savior, when the reality is that every OC has a handful of clunker plays every game.  I don't care who they are or how fucking smart they are, much of the effectiveness of their playcalling is determined by execution of the plays, and Arians has no idea which of his OL guys is going to fuck up a certain play, for instance.  

If Arians just reviews the tapes and cuts out some of the cutesy BS and maximizes what he has to work with, he'll be fine.  He had some very good stuff to go with the crap everyone's bitching about, and tranisitioning to a Ben-centric offense takes some adjustments.  I'm not going to call out anyone for their opinion, but jeeeez, just chill and get some perspective, sip some bourbon and root against the fucking Belicheats.  We'll be back.  We'll be fine.  We'll be better next year.
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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #18 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 16:35 »

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I mentioned something in the gamethread about the gaffes last night not being surprising.  It's what we had seen during the 1-3 stretch to end the season (.  It's what we had seen during the entire season (STs).  It's what we knew coming into the season (OL stunk).  

But excuse me for not jumping onboard the "fix it" wagon, expecting 2008 to be an improvement.  

How exactly is STs fixed?  It's been a nasty sore going on at least six years.  Different coaches, different personnel, similar results in critical games.  Does Chidi Iwuoma really deserve THAT much credit?  

How is it fixed?  Tomlin certainly gave it a decent shot prior to the start of the season.  Hired a new STs coach, along with a STs assistant coach.  Spent enough time on STs during camp to cause even STs ace Clint Kreiwaldt to complain.  Tomlin put starters on STs.  He signed another STs ace Marquis Cooper (see last night's return by MJD).  

What else can be done, other than the firing of Lig and his asst., hoping to finally get the "right" STs coach, and altering personnel?

So far as the draft goes, color me unenthusiastic as that being the golden road to glory.  Timmons was the wrong pick, plain and simple.  That the Steelers didn't have enough foresight to draft a guy like Grubbs, with the foresight originating from both of their starting guards up for FA after the season, gives me little confidence for a quick fix at OL not being a detriment to the team's other needs  The elephant in the room this off-season is DE.  The baby elephant is free safety.

Free agency.... the Steelers always seem much more cautious and thoughtful than they do in the overall draft.  But OL comes at a premium.  At least the good ones do.  But if there is hope for the 2008 Steelers, I believe it comes via FA and not the draft.

I admit that Mahan fell well short of my expectations.  Maybe his best position is guard.  Maybe it's on another team.  

Lots of fans didn't like Arians prior to the season and feel vindicated.  I've got no beef with them venting.  

I can't say I have a strong opinion one way or the other.  Remove Arians...does Ben get set back another year?  Though, Ben seems to do better calling his own plays IMO.

Quote
we were NOT, and we all knew we were NOT.

And we won't be in 2008.  

I don't believe I'm being unrealistically negative.  I think this team lacks talent beyond Roethlisberger, Holmes, Parker, and Miller on offense, and Hampton and possibly Woodley on defense.  I don't think that is corrected with one off-season.  

I expected no better than a 9-7 team and a wildcard placement.  

Although an 8-8 record in 2008 may suggest an improved team v. a 10-6 2007 record, considering the 2008 schedule.  

I didn't anticipate Tomlin's difficulties with making in-game decisions such as challenges, timeouts, etc.  But I think he'll be a good coach as he gains more experience.  

I didn't realize the lack of talent until this past off-season when guys like McFadden and Ant. Smith weren't able to yet beat out the incumbents.  

The Steelers probably weren't as good as their 10-6 record, AFCN champ status this year.  

Ben improved, Tomlin showed some good with the bad, and Holmes stepped up big time.  

The defense took giant leaps backwards, STs still sucks, and OL is a mess.  

That's where we are.
I'll be honest: I have no idea what the STs fix is.  But the fact that other teams don't get fucked over with the regularity that we do means the solution is out there.  We just need to find it.  

I'm not as yet thrilled with Timmons, but then again, how can you say he was the wrong pick?  At least until we've seen him in meaningful play.  It's easy to point to guys getting meaningful playing time their rookie season, and say we could have had that.  As noted before, cycling into this D requires some study time (cf. Polamalu).  I think Timmons is a better fit inside than out, but we'll see.  (Maybe that's good: much of what went wrong in December was, IMO, attributable to pisspoor ILB play.)  Please remember that Timmons is very, very young, second youngest on the team, probably 2-3 years younger than most rooks, and he had the usual R1 rook setbacks.  Give him a year, please.

The elephant in the room isn't DE, it's both lines.  When Smith was healthy, the DL was still a top unit.  Keisel vs. Kimo was worse versus the run, better vs. the pass; Snack and Smith are still top players.  But depth is clearly an issue, and the 40 looks have been less effective this year.  These guys are hitting their 30s, so age and depth are an issue.  But I think one solid DE and one DT will suffice, along with some OL re-stocking.  FS will be OK if Clark comes back healthy, and if Smith pulls his head out of his ass and learns somethig.  I still think Smith can be a heck of a player if coached up, but he clearly regressed.  Then again, so did several other recent DBs, including Ike, McFadden, and obviously Coke.  It may be a natural cycle.

I thought Mahan might be solid if unspectacular, but was clearly wrong.  IMO he's a backup OG/OC or even a guy Tomlin cuts to make a point.  We can take that cap hit, no prob.

Quote
I  don't believe I'm being unrealistically negative. I think this team lacks talent beyond Roethlisberger, Holmes, Parker, and Miller on offense, and Hampton and possibly Woodley on defense. I don't think that is corrected with one off-season.

Well, we disagree then.  I think the star power of this team is better than probably 75% of the league, and its depth ain't so bad either, with notable exceptions.  What team is stocked 53 deep with A-list guys?  You don't think Hines Ward is still a top player?  You don't think Aaron Smith is?   You write off Townshend and Taylor?  I can't agree.  I even think Nate Washington has shown better than most #3 WRs league-wide.

I do think we can and will improve.  But feel free to be pessimistic.  I'm not being rosy for the sake of it.  We're diverging here, and that's fine.
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steelers4lyfe333
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« Reply #19 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 16:36 »

Im just really cant see us not winning the divison.. I no we do play a crazy schedule but every1 in our divison plays the AFC south n the NFC east...Even at 9-7 or 10-6 if we own our division games then the title should b in the bad.

No1 in the AFC North  scares me
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