Maximum Grilled Steelers Forum
Nov 21, 2014 at 13:25 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home   Forum   Help Calendar Media Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: FUCK YOU OVER-REACTING ASSHOLES  (Read 2932 times)
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12195
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,377



« Reply #20 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 16:47 »

Quote
Finny, I'll play Ol' Scratch to your Dan'l Webster on the 3:00 to go playcalling.  With Jax having 3 TO's in hand, running the clock was not the prime directive, the PS absolutely needed to get two first downs:

Jax pretty much stayed in Cover 2 all night.  Their only real defensive wrinkle was a continuous rotation of Front 7 personnel.

1D-10, Najeh over RG for 5.  I was fine with that.  Even if he only got 3 yards, it left a manageable down-and-distance and has Jax thinking run.

2D-5, run bunched trips right, Ben behind center, rolling pocket right.  That play is designed to beat a Cover 2, and the Jags had problems with that formation all night.  Ben can throw, run, or if the play breaks down, he's outta the pocket and can throw it OOB.  My opinion is that the clock is not a factor yet.

3D-5, let's assume a Matt Spaeth drop on D2.  Shotgun, start out trips right as in D2, motion Hines or Holmes left.  Slant pass to Holmes, or if the LB is reading the Holmes route, have Hines sit down for five on the opposite side of the LB.

What I didn't like about the BBR draw is that it went to our weakness at LT and there wasn't a real pass option in there.

I had a long post over at BSG with misgivings about the game and the PS.  Like most issues, there is good and bad.  Arians had a great game plan for passing the ball.  He was able to devise a scheme to beat the Jax defense, even with BBR's occasional gaffes and a patchwork line.  It's just when you get to specific game situations that Arians goes brain dead.  The PSO got away from offense in general in Q2.  All those fade patterns at the goal line.  Don't know if it's a lack of focus, but it ends up Ray Handley bad.  It's like his playcalling in the 2002 Browns game.  Wonderful offensive effort until the last couple series, capped by an inexplicable long out pattern call to Northcutt on 3rd down with the Steelers out of timeouts.  Stategic horror show that cost the Browns the game.  

FWIW, I think Arians is a wonderful WR coach and is miles ahead of a lot of guys in designing a passing game plan.  I would put value his pregame input.  It's just that he's not the complete package as OC.
In all honesty, I didn't like that series at all, either.  And good points made on Arians going "brain dead," although I still think the 2002 game was more a failure of Bitch Davis than of Arians.  I'm not saying there is nothing to criticize with Arians, but I am saying that I'd like to see Tomlin and Arians sit down and assess what didn't work and correct it.  My criticisms, were I Tomlin, would be:

1. RZ efficacy.  Came away with far too few 6s after successful drives.  We need to really evaluate the plays we use here.  They need to be lightning fast to catch Ds before they can react.  Which brings us to...

2. Cutesy BS plays.  Anything that takes too long to develop, and has too many lines squiggled over the chalkboard, is cutesy BS.  Hand off to FWP, who then has a tea party with Ward, the two of them pick posies as the OL renders songs from A Chorus Line...  Fucking just toss a quick fucking slant in front of the DBs, motherfucker.

3. Not exploiting weakness.  This seems to be a recurrent theme with PS coaches since, well, forever.  Why not run on bad run defenses?  Pass on bad pass defenses?  Take advantage of third stringers, rookies, cripples, and gimps?  

4. Find some way to assert the run more consistently, whether or not the OL is fixed.  We'd damned well better fix the OL, but I did get sick of seeing FWP and ND getting snagged for losses before plays could even take off.  Do we need to bull it up the middle to prove something, if we can use mobility and get the ball outside?  

5.  Fix the fucking screen.  It works once per game, and the rest of the time we get schooled.

Anything else?  Let's fix it, and move on.
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
SCacalaki
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 4449
Offline Offline

Posts: 14,499


WWW
« Reply #21 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 17:12 »

Quote
But the fact that other teams don't get fucked over with the regularity that we do means the solution is out there. We just need to find it.

My counter to that is that while this may be true, we're in something around Year 6 of trying to find the solution.  It's been better, it's been worse during the past six years, but I would not say we've found a solution during that time.  

Other than swapping coaches or rumaging the bargain bin for a STs ace, I'm not sure what else can be done.  Tomlin made STs a point of emphasis this year.  Probably moreso than at any time during Cowher's tenure; extensive time during camp devoted to STs, new coaches, and new personnel.  

It failed many times this year.  

Quote
I'm not as yet thrilled with Timmons, but then again, how can you say he was the wrong pick? At least until we've seen him in meaningful play.

I'm concerned about ever getting to the point Timmons playing a meaningful down.  

Plenty of projects to be had in later rounds.  It appears to me that Woodley has surpassed Timmons on the depth chart.  Woodley, despite injury, had quite a bit of meaningful playing time in 2007-08.

Maybe the FO has changed their minds and believes Timmons to be best suited at ILB, creating an apples to oranges scenario for Woodley and Timmons.  I can only hope so.

Timmons isn't fast or big enough to play OLB in a 34.  That's the bottom line for my opinion.  

I feel uncomfortable with the pick due to the fact the Steelers knew their two starting guards were up for new contracts in 2008 and didn't plan accordingly.  They extended Simmons but gave themselves little alternative.  I think the Simmons deal was a bad one and believe selecting a guard like Ben Grubbs (and then a OLB like Woodley) would have put the Steelers into a better position in 2008 when Faneca/Simmons and Haggans were gone.  

The foresight is what bothers me.  Timmons may become the next Larry Foote (and that's no ringing endorsement) but it'll come at an expense to the offense next year.  

Maybe there is always an expense to some other area of the team.  

Right now, it looks to me as though we drafted one OLB last year.  

Quote
The elephant in the room isn't DE, it's both lines

In "both lines," are you saying DL and OL?

If so, I don't think the OL is an unnoticed elephant in the room.  I thought that was one of the premises of this thread....we knew OL would be a problem heading into the season.  

I'd prefer we plan for the future better.  

Neither Keisel nor Aaron Smith are young guys.  Why wait until something breaks, as it did this year?  I know you're not a huge fan of Kirschke and I can't believe you were happy with Eason's play.  

I'm not sure the prudent draft has us with two OL on Day One.

But I think Ron Cook describes what many Steelers fans want..."It's pretty obvious how the first three rounds should go for the Steelers: Offensive lineman, offensive lineman, offensive lineman."

I hope he's kidding, even if it's just two OL, because while it may improve the OL, it will undoubtedly hinder other areas of the team.  

And with my view of the talent on this team, the Steelers can't afford that type of hinderance.  

Quote
You don't think Hines Ward is still a top player? You don't think Aaron Smith is? You write off Townshend and Taylor? I can't agree. I even think Nate Washington has shown better than most #3 WRs league-wide.

To respond to the specific players, I left Ward out for sure.  

I have no idea how Aaron Smith will return.  I have a difficult time believing that losing DE caused the defense to go to shit but maybe it was the cause.  If so, I feel more confident in my assessment of the remaining talent on defense.

I don't have the same opinion of Ike and Deshea that you do.  

Definitely don't share the same opinion for Nate Washington.  

It's not about having 53 A-list players, it's about having talented starters.  There are some but IMO, there are more of the Larry Footes and Kendall Simmons than the Ben Roethlisbergers and Casey Hamptons.

You and I share many of the same ideas re: what we expected coming into the season, and how, now that it's over, the deficiencies aren't that surprising.  

I agree with jcharding that it won't be 2008 that reaps the benefits of a good draft or FA signing session.  Maybe 2009.  

I am optimistic that we have a playmaker in Woodley at LB.  I really think we were playing with "one arm" at OLB this year with Hags opposite James Harrison.  

I pray for a speedy recovery for Ryan Clark 'cause Ant. Smith might be a reasonable #4 safety but he's not the future FS.  

Glad to hear you're optimistic 'cause I need to hear that side.
« Last Edit: Jan 06, 2008 at 17:30 by SCacalaki » Logged

Words to live by:  "Dick LeBeau is Dick LeBeau," Tomlin said. "Everybody knows Dick."
LambertsFrontTeeth
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 1617
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,462



« Reply #22 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 17:54 »

Quote
Quote
I'm not as yet thrilled with Timmons, but then again, how can you say he was the wrong pick? At least until we've seen him in meaningful play.

I'm concerned about ever getting to the point Timmons playing a meaningful down.  

Plenty of projects to be had in later rounds.  It appears to me that Woodley has surpassed Timmons on the depth chart.  Woodley, despite injury, had quite a bit of meaningful playing time in 2007-08.
...
Timmons isn't fast or big enough to play OLB in a 34.  That's the bottom line for my opinion.  

I feel uncomfortable with the pick due to the fact the Steelers knew their two starting guards were up for new contracts in 2008 and didn't plan accordingly.
Right now, it looks to me as though we drafted one OLB last year.  
 
Bingo!

This was my frustration, oh, five milliseconds after we picked Timmons. Complete reach for need at a single position, as opposed to considering a better player at OL (which also screamed of need, BTW).

Best part of that debacle is, now, we almost have to do the SAME THING this year at OL, neglecting value at DL, because our OL is so fucking screwed.

It's a shitty domino effect.

Well, at least we found Woodley.

 
Logged

"Dreith said I hit Sipe too hard. I hit him as hard as I could. Brian has a chance to go out of bounds and he decides not to. He knows I'm going to hit him. And I do. History."
- - - Jack Lambert, after referee Ben Dreith ejected him from a game for knocking out Browns QB Brian Sipe.
padgfrombf
Member
***

Karma: 157
Offline Offline

Posts: 345


WWW
« Reply #23 on: Jan 06, 2008 at 19:12 »

Ditto to Lambert's ditto.  Not only is Timmons more suited to ILB, the Steelers probably should deal with both Farrior and his contract as well.  $4.7MM for an ILB that would have a problem covering Grady Jackson in pass coverage is something that needs to be addressed.  I like Farrior, especially at the POA, but he got worn down toward the end.

Don't want to copy all things Patriot, but they have extended the effectiveness of their older LB's by rotating them heavily.  Wouldn't mind seeing the PSD do that with Timmons/Foote/Farrior and Haggans/Harrison/Woodley (if Haggans returns) down the road.  The only reason they didn't do that more with Woodley this year is injury.

Also, responding to SC's post about special (ed) teams, I thought that Kevin Spencer did a decent job in his time here.  There were a couple of misguided ideas, like Colclough on punt returns, but the PS were invariably better at the end of the season on ST's then at the start.  And he took the really bad ST units of 2001 and made them a little better each year through 2005.  I was a little disappointed to see Spencer go, moreso as this season progressed.
« Last Edit: Jan 06, 2008 at 19:26 by padgfrombf » Logged
Preacherman0
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5808
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,846



WWW
« Reply #24 on: Jan 07, 2008 at 10:00 »

Quote
Other than swapping coaches or rumaging the bargain bin for a STs ace, I'm not sure what else can be done.

I saw Rhonde Barber on coverage teams for TB yesterday.  I know we've done SOME of this, but I say put any starter in the game that you have to put in there to stop the bleeding, because it has absolutely killed us for years.

Quote
2. Cutesy BS plays. Anything that takes too long to develop, and has too many lines squiggled over the chalkboard, is cutesy BS. Hand off to FWP, who then has a tea party with Ward, the two of them pick posies as the OL renders songs from A Chorus Line... Fucking just toss a quick fucking slant in front of the DBs, motherfucker.

Aside from this being a hilarious description, it's also pretty accurate.  Just run the ball, throw the ball.  Especially the simple stuff, the short passes.

Quote
5. Fix the fucking screen. It works once per game, and the rest of the time we get schooled.


I'm not even sure it works once a game.  We look like we have absolutely no idea how to execute a screen.  I place part of this on the oline coaching, because our guys do not release their man on time and are not in good position when the throw is made.  Neither are the backs.  As lucky as it was, both Davis and Faneca were out of position on the intercepted screen Sat. night.

Either practice them until you can execute them or quit trying to execute them.

Overall, after some time to think it over, I'd say that I'm leaning more towards Finny than I am towards the other perspectives.  I don't know that we're a true SB contender, but I don't think we're 6-10, either.

Quote
I hope he's kidding, even if it's just two OL, because while it may improve the OL, it will undoubtedly hinder other areas of the team.

And with my view of the talent on this team, the Steelers can't afford that type of hinderance.

But I believe that an improved offensive line elevates every other area of the team.  Better oline play means better running game=better ball control=less time for the defense to be on the field.  Better oline play=less pressure on Ben=fewer turnovers=much less pressure on the defense and a healthy franchise QB.  Better oline play=better red zone efficiency=bigger leads=other teams being 1-dimensional=better for our defense.

At one time, I believed that just about anyone could get big and strong and play oline in the NFL.  I have really changed my perspective on that.  Oline, IMO, is the unsung heart and soul of a football team, and having a good one is essential not only to the success of the offense, but to the success of everyone.  I believe we fix that first before we worry about anything else.


 
Logged

We have traded Christ for the religion of Christianity.
SCacalaki
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 4449
Offline Offline

Posts: 14,499


WWW
« Reply #25 on: Jan 07, 2008 at 11:45 »

Quote
I saw Rhonde Barber on coverage teams for TB yesterday. I know we've done SOME of this, but I say put any starter in the game that you have to put in there to stop the bleeding, because it has absolutely killed us for years.

I saw DJF mention at MGP that James Harrison was on STs.  

I know I've seen Ike and Heath Miller on STs as well.  So that's at least three starters.  

Others I know where on STs but not starters...Clint Kriewaldt, Marquis Cooper, Anthony Madison, Arnold Harrison, and 'Dre Frazier.  Greg Warren if it was a punt.  Either Reed or Sep, depending on KR/PR.  

I'm not arguing whether it needs to be fixed but rather the how's of the fix.  

Tomlin must do more to fix the situation but I don't contest that he didn't try, from camp through most of the season.  

Quote
But I believe that an improved offensive line elevates every other area of the team. Better oline play means better running game=better ball control=less time for the defense to be on the field. Better oline play=less pressure on Ben=fewer turnovers=much less pressure on the defense and a healthy franchise QB. Better oline play=better red zone efficiency=bigger leads=other teams being 1-dimensional=better for our defense.

That's a good point, though it's a mighty big equation.  

I'd lean towards accepting that premise if we're in-season, where personnel adjustments are more difficult to make.  

Being that we're in the off-season, I'd like to figure out the fix for the defense, as oppossed to a cover up.  

You can't get everything on Day One of the draft.  While OL needs help, I'd prefer not to go overboard in the short term at the expense of the long term.  IMO, it's why we're in the OL situation we're in.
Logged

Words to live by:  "Dick LeBeau is Dick LeBeau," Tomlin said. "Everybody knows Dick."
mzimmerman81
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 311
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,569


WWW
« Reply #26 on: Jan 07, 2008 at 11:53 »

Watching Ike on the 96 yard kickoff return shows why he shouldn't be on it.
Logged

2007 MGS Bracket Challenge Winner
Preacherman0
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5808
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,846



WWW
« Reply #27 on: Jan 07, 2008 at 11:57 »

Quote
That's a good point, though it's a mighty big equation.

Yeah, and maybe a bit of a stretch that just comes from my belief that Oline and QB are the biggest keys to winning.  I would cite Steeler teams of the past that had stellar lines and won, even with mediocre QBs and glaring weaknesses in other areas.

I would also cite this year's Browns.  Derek Anderson really did not have a great year, statistically.  But that line improved tremendously this season and it almost got them to the playoffs, in spite of a weak defense.  It's just a personal belief about the importance of the down guys on offense.
Logged

We have traded Christ for the religion of Christianity.
LambertsFrontTeeth
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 1617
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,462



« Reply #28 on: Jan 07, 2008 at 18:06 »

I agree in principle with the philosophy that a team shouldn't reach for need in the draft, but, the offensive line is SO bad that I feel we have to focus on it with a plurality of our top 4 picks.

We have to protect Ben, he's too important to the team.
Logged

"Dreith said I hit Sipe too hard. I hit him as hard as I could. Brian has a chance to go out of bounds and he decides not to. He knows I'm going to hit him. And I do. History."
- - - Jack Lambert, after referee Ben Dreith ejected him from a game for knocking out Browns QB Brian Sipe.
bucc-o-pain
No longer a N00b!
**

Karma: 102
Offline Offline

Posts: 78



WWW
« Reply #29 on: Jan 07, 2008 at 18:21 »

Quote
I agree in principle with the philosophy that a team shouldn't reach for need in the draft, but, the offensive line is SO bad that I feel we have to focus on it with a plurality of our top 4 picks.

We have to protect Ben, he's too important to the team.
+1

Two very good points.
Logged

Tanqueray and Tab and keep 'em comin'.  - Big Ern
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal
| Sitemap
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!