Maximum Grilled Steelers Forum
Nov 24, 2014 at 06:29 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home   Forum   Help Calendar Media Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 ... 4 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Colbert's comments on the OL  (Read 2585 times)
steelerfaninCO
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 1271
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,484



« on: Jan 15, 2008 at 14:28 »

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08015/849244-66.stm

"Obviously, the sack numbers [47] were something that were up and were unacceptable. But you also have to realize it's the same line that blocked for the league's leading rusher before his injury and it's the same line that allowed the quarterback to have his best year ever.

"To say you need that position and that it is a glaring need, I don't think it's really fair to that group of guys. That being said, sure you want to add depth -- you realize you can lose two unrestricted free agents, and if you do, maybe that changes your focus as you move forward. But I think you have to keep in mind that group did some good things too."


He is still saying Ellen isn't out yet as well, but I think everyone would be surprised to see him stay. He is covering his ass on the Mahan signing, but I guess he can't just come out and say " The Pittsburgh Steeler OL really blows, and after we lose our best shitty player it will get even more sucky. You thought Ben went down a lot this year,  just wait until next year".

Still, I hope he doesn't really think that unit is solid. IMO, Ben and Willie putting up big numbers is a reflection on how big of studs they are, not the OL. They did it despite the OL.

Mahan has got to go. He is not the answer at center and he proved it all year. I'm not sold on Marvel coming back to '04-'05 form either. Simmons is so up and down from play to play its impossible to predict he will be. Colon will probably stay out there at RT simply because they can't replace everyone. I see them trying to keep Max to back up the tackles and maybe even push Smith out.

So does the '08 OL look like

Smith/Starks- LT
Kemo/Mahan- LG
Draft pick- C
Simmons- RG
Colon- RT

Does Capizzi(sp?) make it at tackle? I don't see Mahan getting cut, but kept around to maybe replace Reddy and general depth. He's pretty expensive depth though. Some tough calls to make coming up regarding FA and the draft and I hope that come September '08 , it is a new and improved OL, and therefore team, out there.
 
Logged
Preacherman0
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5808
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,847



WWW
« Reply #1 on: Jan 15, 2008 at 14:35 »

Quote
Still, I hope he doesn't really think that unit is solid. IMO, Ben and Willie putting up big numbers is a reflection on how big of studs they are, not the OL. They did it despite the OL.

Couldn't agree more.

If this is truly a reflection of how he feels, we're in serious trouble.  Hopefully Tomlin will bring him around to reality.
 
Logged

We have traded Christ for the religion of Christianity.
aj_law
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5538
Offline Offline

Posts: 15,175


« Reply #2 on: Jan 15, 2008 at 14:35 »

:smokescreen:

I hope.
Logged

We suck because our drafts have been THE SUCK.
Preacherman0
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5808
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,847



WWW
« Reply #3 on: Jan 15, 2008 at 14:38 »

I'll add that I don't like to hear about the "continuing philosophy" in FA.  I believe that we have to add one really good OL as a free agent if we are to have any hope of improvement next season.
Logged

We have traded Christ for the religion of Christianity.
nate07
N00b
*

Karma: 101
Offline Offline

Posts: 37


« Reply #4 on: Jan 15, 2008 at 14:39 »

WTF? Was Colbery watching the same o-line as I was all year? I hope sure hope we don't pass up an O-lineman in the 1st round of the draft. This years draft seems to be deep in the tackle position.

I don't want Willie and Big Ben to waste the prime years of their career with susan mahan at center!!! The o-line and d-line need to be the top priorities in the draft.  
Logged
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12195
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,377



« Reply #5 on: Jan 15, 2008 at 14:42 »

See my Mind-Meld with Colbert Mock thread.

I think part of him does believe that the line just needs minor adjustments.  I think Tomlin sees it as being worse, but maybe he does have some faith in the OGs on roster, and that Stapleton can overtake Mahan.

It's gonna be interesting...
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
Preacherman0
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5808
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,847



WWW
« Reply #6 on: Jan 15, 2008 at 14:49 »

Quote
Stapleton can overtake Mahan.

It's hard to believe that he could be worse.
 
Logged

We have traded Christ for the religion of Christianity.
mzimmerman81
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 311
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,569


WWW
« Reply #7 on: Jan 15, 2008 at 14:55 »

On the Late Night sportsbeat last night, I heard Ed Bouchette say that Colbert told him the only positions on the field he wouldn't consider drafting is QB and TE.


He said he wanted a safety and two runningbacks as well.
Logged

2007 MGS Bracket Challenge Winner
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12195
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,377



« Reply #8 on: Jan 15, 2008 at 15:01 »

Quote
On the Late Night sportsbeat last night, I heard Ed Bouchette say that Colbert told him the only positions on the field he wouldn't consider drafting is QB and TE.


He said he wanted a safety and two runningbacks as well.
Glad to hear Brian St. Pierre has gotten the vote of confidence.  

Two RBs?  Sure, why not.  We have six picks, for Pete's sake.
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
jonzr
Asst. VP, Jonzring
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 11364
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,828


Have a cup o' joe.


WWW
« Reply #9 on: Jan 15, 2008 at 16:06 »

I'm with aj, it's a smokescreen.  Colbert wants in no way to tip his hand regarding the draft.
 
Logged

"I like David Bowie, he was always my favorite member of Tin Machine."
- Rodney Anonymous

It's a Steeler Nation
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12195
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,377



« Reply #10 on: Jan 15, 2008 at 17:46 »

I don't know that I totally agree with the smokescreen idea.  This year seems good for OT and RB, and possibly DE, early on.  So far so good for us.  We could do worse than draft another RB, with Davenport not here forever and GR largely unproven.  If Mendenhall falls to us, do we pass?

It goes to the BAA argument.  

That said, I truly do hope we get our franchise LT in R1.
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
SCacalaki
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 4449
Offline Offline

Posts: 14,500


WWW
« Reply #11 on: Jan 15, 2008 at 19:19 »

I am looking forward to the draft.

I guess I always do but moreso this year as Tomlin's been with the team for a full season and I'm interested to see what type of influence he'll have over the process.  None?  Some?  

Plus, it's my opinion that the Steelers whiffed with Timmons last year, though I think of it as more a whiff on position selected.  I don't think Timmons will be great but he might fit at the mack ILB.  

I can't help thinking, as I did last April, that Ben Grubbs was the pick.  It just makes sense:

1) both starting guards were going into the last year's of their contracts....allow yourself more leverage as a team in having a backup plan that will be one-year experienced by the time one or both starting guards are gone.  Instead the Steelers had to sign one or the other of Faneca or Simmons.  Simmons was cheaper but you get what you pay for here.

2)  the line was going down hill in 2006.  Certainly a point of need now as it was then, despite Colbert's idea that the Steelers had the leading rusher (who also was leading the league in # of attempts).  Maybe we get lucky and get a Joe Thomas, "ready-to-go-out-of-the-package" OL but it's unlikely.  IMO, it'll be late 2008 or 2009 before the rook OL steps into his own.  

At the same time, last year's mistakes probably make me more confident for this year.  

I believe Tomlin realizes that the Steelers goofed in taking Timmons.  Tomlin had a few comments last Tuesday about Timmons that weren't a ringing endorsement.  I think Tomlin will be better prepared for the 2008 draft and I expect far better from the first round pick.  
Logged

Words to live by:  "Dick LeBeau is Dick LeBeau," Tomlin said. "Everybody knows Dick."
give'emthaboot
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 1469
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,837



« Reply #12 on: Jan 15, 2008 at 20:42 »

i gotta buy into the smokescreen thing too, especially after Tomlin continuously gushing over Revis pre-Draft, only to have NYJ swoop in and steal him away.  now whether or not Tomlin and Colbert really wanted to draft Revis is an arguable point as well, but surely they will try to be more mum about the draft than last year.
« Last Edit: Jan 15, 2008 at 21:27 by give'emthaboot » Logged

'Oh, my, James Harrison is not going to the White House, he must be a devil worshiper!'
Y2Joyce
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 2549
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,861



« Reply #13 on: Jan 15, 2008 at 21:16 »

Agreed.

Darrelle Revis. What a find. Should have made the Pro Bowl but nobody threw at him when it counted (and plus Cromartie of FSU...er SD had an amazing year and was robbed of DPOtY). Great player and I think everyone wishes he was a Steeler.

:Pitter:

Timmons will be fine. Ben Grubbs been scrub...s. Get it!

Colbert can't come up to the podium and destroy players he's got under contract. Regardless of his intentions.

 
Logged

Steelers 58-15 when I am in attendance.
JackSplat
Jerk Store Proprietor
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 1541
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,311



« Reply #14 on: Jan 15, 2008 at 22:01 »

Kind of hard to smokescreen anyone when your Offensive line gave up 2nd worst league wide 47 sacks and countless hurries, etc...

the colbert shuffle smoke screen coming other teams way is from one of them girly cigs that are about 3 feet long and thin as a toothpick

and add me to one of them there Revis supporters this time last year.  I wanted him first round and I didnt give a rats ass if i tipped my hand too early on him or not.
Logged

Jerry, it's Frank Costanza, Mr.
Steinbrenner is here, George is dead, call me back!
pensodyssey
Halfsharkalligator halfman.
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 8123
Offline Offline

Posts: 9,749



« Reply #15 on: Jan 15, 2008 at 22:17 »

Quote
one of them girly cigs that are about 3 feet long and thin as a toothpick
 
Well... it was cold outside...  
Logged

A shabby Charlie Brown.
msdmnr2002
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 2843
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,721



WWW
« Reply #16 on: Jan 15, 2008 at 23:53 »

As mentioned, Colbert can't go up and say in front of everyone that the Oline sucked royally.  At least some of those guys will be back.

the more I hear, the harder it will be to keep Starks.  I think for him it will be less about the money and more about going somewhere he is basically assured a starting spot.  He says the right things about having roots here, wants to stay with the team that drafted him, yada yada yada.  If we can't give him a starting spot, he's likely to go. So which do you prefer - the aging Marvell or the young, huge, inconsistent Max?  Cause it sounds like Colon is keeping his spot.

Can't imagine Faneca stays.  That means two of your top 6 lineman gone, and a third sucking royally (Mahan).  That's a lot of beef to replace.  Don't expect the sack totals to go down unless they convert to the short passing game.

In retrospect, probably should have kept Chukky after all.  Maybe his griping was warranted.
Logged
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12195
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,377



« Reply #17 on: Jan 16, 2008 at 09:02 »

Quote
the more I hear, the harder it will be to keep Starks.  I think for him it will be less about the money and more about going somewhere he is basically assured a starting spot.  He says the right things about having roots here, wants to stay with the team that drafted him, yada yada yada.  If we can't give him a starting spot, he's likely to go. So which do you prefer - the aging Marvell or the young, huge, inconsistent Max?  Cause it sounds like Colon is keeping his spot.

Can't imagine Faneca stays.  That means two of your top 6 lineman gone, and a third sucking royally (Mahan).  That's a lot of beef to replace.  Don't expect the sack totals to go down unless they convert to the short passing game.

In retrospect, probably should have kept Chukky after all.  Maybe his griping was warranted.
I'm hearing two things with Starks.  One, if he stays, is that he won't replace Colon at RT.  So that would mean he's being primed to take over LT from Smith, and continue as utility OT backup.  The other is that if we have the right OT, Colon could be moved inside.

The scary inference here is that we might be content with throwing waaaaay too much dough to retain Max, and hope that his short-term success at LT translates to what we'd get from a franchise LT in the draft.  Ummm, I'm not seeing it.  I see a Simmons scenario here, unfortunately.  IMO, Starks is a good RT, and why Colon is out there instead of being the monster RG we all know he should be is hard to fathom.  

Maybe it's best to lose Starks and not worry about over-paying, and playing him out of position.  We get a 2009 comp, and can pick up a late draft pick to play RT.  Maybe Capizzi even makes it at RT.  I just don't want to over-pay and under-draft for critical positions (LT).  

As for Mahan, don't you think Tomlin's answer at the presser was telling?  Penso noted that he did answer the question; I think that maybe he did, really.  Mahan may be a talent on par with Todd Fordham, but clearly his spot ain't OC, and it doesn't take a genius to see it.  Let him compete for LT against Simmons and Kemo.  He'd be a swell benchwarmer, who could come in occasionally to sub at OC and OG.  Swell.  Or cut his fucking ass entirely, I give a shit.  Send a message, Tomlin.

It's also telling that Stapleton beat out Okobi in camp, even though he was injured through much of camp.  I thought he was dead meat for sure.  Biggest roster surprise, IMO.  Cowher thought enough of Marv Phillip to retain a third OC last year; Tomlin had three going into the season, and had Stapleton ahead of MP by the time he needed some roster space.  Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I'm guessing Tomlin sees something.  Stapleton was a Rimington nom, and beat out Rutgers OL mate Stephenson for a roster spot.  And, by some reports, he's now closer to NFL weight of ~#300, rather than the #285 listed.

 
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12195
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,377



« Reply #18 on: Jan 16, 2008 at 09:10 »

Quote
Plus, it's my opinion that the Steelers whiffed with Timmons last year, though I think of it as more a whiff on position selected.  I don't think Timmons will be great but he might fit at the mack ILB.  

I can't help thinking, as I did last April, that Ben Grubbs was the pick.  ...

I believe Tomlin realizes that the Steelers goofed in taking Timmons.  Tomlin had a few comments last Tuesday about Timmons that weren't a ringing endorsement.  I think Tomlin will be better prepared for the 2008 draft and I expect far better from the first round pick.
I think we're fine with OGs.  Honestly.  If we can pick up a guy this year, great, maybe we can cut Mahan, maybe we don't even retain Kemo.  But I see the issue as weakness at OC and the LT spots.  I hate to count on Stapleton to make the OC issue irrelevant, but my surmise is that that's Tomlin's thinking.  

Consider:

LT:  Baker/Williams, M. Smith
LG: Simmons/Kemo, Kemo/Simmons
C: Stapleton, Mahan
RG: Colon/Mahan
RT: M. Smith, Capizzi/Essex/rookie

It's a bit of a switch, but do-able.

I'll take the minority position again (Arians, Spaeth), but on what are we judging Timmons?  How exactly is he a whiff?  Everything I've read from Tomlin seems to project confidence that he'll be playing, soon and well.  I think the coaches may see him less as a ROLB than a mack ILB, but he's following the Troy P. learning curve, perhaps less PT, but remember that he's very, very young in addition to the setbacks of 1. rookie contract holdout = less camp time, 2. Dickie L. defense learning curve, and finally 3. the broken thumb.

Basically: let's see what he does.  Foote sounds pretty sure about the writing on the wall.
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
msdmnr2002
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 2843
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,721



WWW
« Reply #19 on: Jan 16, 2008 at 09:32 »

Quote
I'll take the minority position again (Arians, Spaeth), but on what are we judging Timmons? How exactly is he a whiff?

I agree that it's way to early to judge the Timmons pick.  Yes, it would have been nice to have hit on an Olineman that could started right away, but there are certainly no guarantees that would have happened.  Timmons has time, and Farrior/Foote won't be playing the middle forever.  If in 2-3 years we have a great inside/outside combo in Timmons and Woodley, we'll be praising the front office for filling a need before it was obvious, instead of waiting until we're desperate.

 
Logged
steelers4lyfe333
Member
***

Karma: 153
Offline Offline

Posts: 141



« Reply #20 on: Jan 16, 2008 at 14:50 »

I say give it another year and Timmons will take over for Farrior when he moves on...

Slid Foote over to Farriors spot and let Timmons settle in the mack spot...

Foote is an interesting player.. doesn't cover or blitz amazing but he's always around the ball...n gets into the back field..Our LB's will be fine
Logged
aj_law
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5538
Offline Offline

Posts: 15,175


« Reply #21 on: Jan 16, 2008 at 16:04 »

Regarding the LBs, as I briefly mentioned on another thread, I think the Wood/Harrison edge combo will be damn good for the next few.  Both guys have the ability to really fuck with O-lines.  Harrison was sick this year with a so-so Hags opposite him.  Imagine how much better he'll be next year when the opposition has to account for a monster on the other side too.

Hopefully Timmons surprises in the middle because beyond him, there really isn't much to get excited about on the depth chart there.  And, with Farrior entering his final year and Foote being a...meh, ILB, folowing closely behind with one more year, this part of the front seven looks awfully soft.  Maybe, just maybe they can find a Day Two needle in a haystack that can come in and shake things up a bit.  If not, they're going to have to make a big move there soon.  Looks like a Day One '09 target.

One other point, well, a couple, actually.  I do not feel comfortable with going into next season and essentially handing Stapleton the OC job.  If his biggest competition there is going to be Mahan, they're pretty much forking it over on a silver platter.  I think that OC is a pick that needs to be made somewhere in the first three, maybe four, rounds.  I agree with Funguswack that OG is OK in some form or another.  OT and C are different stories that need good talent now.

Speaking of Mahan, initially I said that I thought he was going to compete with Simmons, Colon and Kemo for the 2 OG spots.  Now, I'm not so sure.

If I had to rank those four guys, it would probably look like this:

Simmons >> Kemo > Colon > Mahan

Maybe even:

Simmons >> Kemo > Colon >> Mahan

Considering the very real likelihood that he'll be a backup next season, I don't see the necessity in retaining Chucky Okobi v2.0.  The dude will be pocketing on average, a shade over 3 million per; too much for a backup.  If they draft two linemen on Day One, I think he's a post 6/1 cut.  This move, along with axing Wilson, would save almost 4 million in cap space.  For the record, giving Tuman the boot would save almost a million and a half too.  C-U-N...wait a sec, C-U-T.

They must either (1) restructure Smith, or (2) resign Starks and cut Smith.  If I had to guess, I'd say that they go with option (1).  Red walks, peace, Homey.  Mahan's out.  Draft OT & OC.

Starting OL next year:

LT: Smith/(Rookie) ~ Rookie pushes Smith to RT?
LG: Simmons
C: (Rookie)/Stapleton ~ Rookie pushes Stapleton to the bench?
RG: Kemo ~ Still think Colon and Kemo should duke it out for this, but OK.
RT: Colon/Essex/(Rookie) ~ As good as Essex looked, I'd almost be willing to just hand this job to Smith and let Essex and the Rook battle for the LT spot.
« Last Edit: Jan 16, 2008 at 16:06 by aj_law » Logged

We suck because our drafts have been THE SUCK.
LambertsFrontTeeth
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 1617
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,462



« Reply #22 on: Jan 16, 2008 at 17:44 »

Quote
I do not feel comfortable with going into next season and essentially handing Stapleton the OC job.  If his biggest competition there is going to be Mahan, they're pretty much forking it over on a silver platter.  I think that OC is a pick that needs to be made somewhere in the first three, maybe four, rounds.  I agree with Funguswack that OG is OK in some form or another.  OT and C are different stories that need good talent now.

...

Speaking of Mahan, initially I said that I thought he was going to compete with Simmons, Colon and Kemo for the 2 OG spots.  Now, I'm not so sure.

 
I agree with the concern about OC. we need to bring in new blood there. However, my concern is that I haven't heard impressive things about OC talent in the draft  the way that we have heard the past few years. Would we be better off with another FA? In terms of a pure C, not some projected G to change (a la Mahan)?

I'm actually of the opinion that we need both G and T in this draft. As has been pointed out, maybe we will all be congratulating Colbert in two years for having the wisdom to take two LB's to cement needs in 2007  (if Timmons works out).
We might be able to congratulate him to do the same thing at OL in 2008.

 If legitimate value is there, I'd love to see (as previously stated) an entire side of a line drafted this year, perhaps bookending a DL.  Or, if value dictates, I'd also support two picks at Tackle -- supposedly, one of the better T drafts in recent years.

Bringing in talent ANYWHERE on the line, to me, gives us much more flexibility than trying to catch lightning in a bottle and moving these stiffs around.

I think it's much, much too risky to say, "Well, move Colon to G, Starks to LT, Smith to RT, bla bla bla." I understand the logic -- or should I say desperation -- in such a move. But it's simply not reasonable to assume that all of these guys would learn new spots and suddenly become less limited.  And I've grown tired of experimentation there. And for fuck's sake, Mahan has GOT to go.

Fuck it, let's just blow it up and build a  new line. Improve in 2008, cement for the future in 2009.
 
Logged

"Dreith said I hit Sipe too hard. I hit him as hard as I could. Brian has a chance to go out of bounds and he decides not to. He knows I'm going to hit him. And I do. History."
- - - Jack Lambert, after referee Ben Dreith ejected him from a game for knocking out Browns QB Brian Sipe.
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12195
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,377



« Reply #23 on: Jan 16, 2008 at 18:00 »

Velasco, UGA OC.  Mentioned as a late rounder.  Not a ZBS fit, hence perfect for the Stillers.  Basically: an immovable object.

Scheuning, Ore St. OG.  Reminded me a helluva lot of Faneca.  Get those two, your IOL is suddenly solid.

Take your pick: Williams or Baker at LT, R1.  Suddenly, a fucking solid line appears, perhaps too much depth at OG.  

LT: Baker/Williams, M. Smith
LG: Scheuning, Simmons
C: Velasco, Stapleton
RG: Colon, Kemo
RT: M. Smith, Capizzi

That's 10 OL.  Mahan, fuck yasself.  QE motherfucking D.  Three picks, desperately needed, a line that vaults us to the top.
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
LambertsFrontTeeth
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 1617
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,462



« Reply #24 on: Jan 16, 2008 at 18:05 »

Quote
Velasco, UGA OC.  Mentioned as a late rounder.  Not a ZBS fit, hence perfect for the Stillers.  Basically: an immovable object.

Scheuning, Ore St. OG.  Reminded me a helluva lot of Faneca.  Get those two, your IOL is suddenly solid.

Take your pick: Williams or Baker at LT, R1.  Suddenly, a fucking solid line appears, perhaps too much depth at OG.  

LT: Baker/Williams, M. Smith
LG: Scheuning, Simmons
C: Velasco, Stapleton
RG: Colon, Kemo
RT: M. Smith, Capizzi

That's 10 OL.  Mahan, fuck yasself.  QE motherfucking D.  Three picks, desperately needed, a line that vaults us to the top.
Yes, yes yes.

Oh, and Finny, perhaps we could sign your new avatar to special teams?

That guy would be deadly.
Logged

"Dreith said I hit Sipe too hard. I hit him as hard as I could. Brian has a chance to go out of bounds and he decides not to. He knows I'm going to hit him. And I do. History."
- - - Jack Lambert, after referee Ben Dreith ejected him from a game for knocking out Browns QB Brian Sipe.
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12195
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,377



« Reply #25 on: Jan 16, 2008 at 18:11 »

Quote
Quote
Velasco, UGA OC.  Mentioned as a late rounder.  Not a ZBS fit, hence perfect for the Stillers.  Basically: an immovable object.

Scheuning, Ore St. OG.  Reminded me a helluva lot of Faneca.  Get those two, your IOL is suddenly solid.

Take your pick: Williams or Baker at LT, R1.  Suddenly, a fucking solid line appears, perhaps too much depth at OG. 

LT: Baker/Williams, M. Smith
LG: Scheuning, Simmons
C: Velasco, Stapleton
RG: Colon, Kemo
RT: M. Smith, Capizzi

That's 10 OL.  Mahan, fuck yasself.  QE motherfucking D.  Three picks, desperately needed, a line that vaults us to the top.
Yes, yes yes.

Oh, and Finny, perhaps we could sign your new avatar to special teams?

That guy would be deadly.
Hold still.

[*THWUuMMMMPFHHH*]
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
steelerfaninCO
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 1271
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,484



« Reply #26 on: Jan 16, 2008 at 18:25 »

Quote

 Mahan, fuck yasself.
I think we need a FUCK YOU SEAN MAHAN!!!! thread. Hasn't been enough of that around lately...
Logged
SCacalaki
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 4449
Offline Offline

Posts: 14,500


WWW
« Reply #27 on: Jan 16, 2008 at 19:53 »

Quote
I'll take the minority position again (Arians, Spaeth), but on what are we judging Timmons? How exactly is he a whiff?

I'm not sure why you label yourself as the minority position finny.  I certainly doubt that camp exists and it looks like the responses after your's would suggest there's a vocal backing of your point.

Thought I explained the "whiff" comment in my previous post...absolutely believe it was a whiff based on position.  I believe the Steelers put most of their eggs in one basket for Day One.  As a result, we're stuck talking about picking at least two OL between Rds. 1-3 this year (that's the majority projection around here), which means we probably fall deficient in some other area.

The reason it's easy to let Clark Haggans walk is Lamar Woodley.  That isn't/wasn't so for Faneca or Simmons.  

The reason we had to extend either Faneca or Simmons was there was no good backup plan in place.  No way would the Steelers have been successful in 2008 with Kemo and Colon (or Mahan).  Personally, I don't know how someone would feel good about either of those guys as starting guards.  

Kemo's biggest contribution came a few weeks ago as a FB (I kid, sort of).  There has been talk on this board about moving Kemo to NT 'cause he isn't smart enough to hack it at guard.  I don't know whether Kemo would do well as a starter, but in 3+ years, Kemo has received sparse playing time, despite poor play by Simmons in 2007.  

If I can't knock Timmons 'cause he hasn't done anything yet, how can Stapleton be penciled in as the OC for 2008, when he's yet to do anything?  

If the team is going to make a big investment in Roethlisberger, I'd like him to be well protected.  We all would.  I believe the Steelers should have had better foresight for 2008 and the OL.  They didn't and we are where we are.  

Re: Stapleton beating Okobi out of camp, remember, Okobi ran a higher pricetag than Stapleton and Okobi wasn't happy with Mahan's arrival, expecting to be handed the starting OC job.  So I'm not sure the decision to retain Stapleton was based entirely on his preseason play and potential.  

Quote
Yes, it would have been nice to have hit on an Olineman that could started right away,

Well, that's kinda my point....the OL drafted last April wouldn't have had to start in 2007, but would have had a year of prep work for 2008 when one or both starting guards had left.  

Had a guy like Grubbs been selected instead of Timmons (or to avoid taking a direct shot at Timmons, had an OG been taken as opposed to an OLB, err, ILB) he could have learned through 2007 behind our two long-time starting guards and moved into one of the available positions in 2008.  Moving forward, the Steelers would have a 2nd year, 1st round guard available for 2008.  

As things stand, Timmons will fight with Foote (I believe Tomlin said that) for the mack ILB position.  Foote is our youngest LB, and while not great, probably will be a few more years away from great decline than Farrior or Harrison.

Even if one thinks Timmons will be a good ILB, as things stand, and assuming Haggans leaves, we still have depth issues at OLB...a year after drafting "two" OLB prospects.  

To me, it's frustrating.  I never liked the Timmons pick, neither before the draft nor at any point afterwards.  I think the Steelers didn't set themselves up well so far as leveraging themselves for negotations with Faneca/Simmons or for the 2008 OL.  Gosh, three OL (then starters) up for new contracts after the 2007 season.  

And not that a rookie OL can't start and make an impact immediately (Joe Thomas and Ben Grubbs did) or that a 1st round OL will make a great impact over the long haul (IMO, Simmons) but who thought FS would go to the shitter so fast?  The DL needs an infusion of youth (as Tomlin put it).  Drafting for the same postiion in the 1st and 2nd rounds seems likely to cause a similar reaction in the following year's draft, pushing other positions to the "dire needs" status.  Seems like it can have a domino effect from draft to draft.  

I don't begrudge anyone for liking Timmons or making the best of the pick.  Certainly, I'd prefer to a 1st rounder to panout one way or the other, regardless of my opinoin.  Timmons' best chance for success in a 34 is inside.  But I think most fans knew last April that a 234lb LB doesn't fit at OLB in a 34.  Tomlin appears to have realized the same.

What's done is done and it's time to move on with what we have, I guess.

Quote
Simmons >> Kemo > Colon > Mahan

That's downright frightening.
« Last Edit: Jan 16, 2008 at 20:25 by SCacalaki » Logged

Words to live by:  "Dick LeBeau is Dick LeBeau," Tomlin said. "Everybody knows Dick."
Preacherman0
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5808
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,847



WWW
« Reply #28 on: Jan 16, 2008 at 19:58 »

Quote
Maybe it's best to lose Starks and not worry about over-paying, and playing him out of position. We get a 2009 comp, and can pick up a late draft pick to play RT. Maybe Capizzi even makes it at RT. I just don't want to over-pay and under-draft for critical positions (LT).

That's really the deal, isn't it?  I like Starks, but I think he may have that tendency to get "fat and happy" when he's a starter.  Starks in 04 and 07 was very different than the Starks of 05/06.  Was he better because he was pushed into proving himself?  Or was he better because he's better suited to play LT?  No way you can tell--keep or release, it's a guessing game.  I tend to think he'd make a good if not great LT, but how much cap room are we willing to tie up for "good" on Ben's blind side?

Timmons?  Who knows?  I never liked the pick, but I had mixed feelings about SanAntonio in year 1.  One thing I'd say about Larry Foote--I like him, but he's as good as he's ever going to be, IMO.  He's good, scrappy, plays hard, but he's hit the ceiling of his potential.  How long to you hang in with him?  

Too many questions, not many answers this offseason.  When I look at what this team is facing, I couldn't imagine being a GM/personnel guy and trying to make decisions.  Are we 10-6 on the way up?  Or are we 10-6 barely hanging on?  I think that BR really throws off the curve for finding out how good you are because he compensates for weaknesses at other positions.

So who the heck knows?
Logged

We have traded Christ for the religion of Christianity.
aj_law
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5538
Offline Offline

Posts: 15,175


« Reply #29 on: Jan 17, 2008 at 10:41 »

Kind of building on what I said earlier regarding cutting Mahan and focusing on improving OT and OC...

The more I think about it, the more I believe that a good FA move might be to get a quality OC in FA.

Yeah, they can take a shot that they'll snag a good one in R3 or R4 of the draft, but with Stapleton being the only other viable OC on the roster, that's a scary proposition going into the '08 season.  They need a quality guy putting the ball in #7's hands.  And please, let's not even go with the "so and so can/will move over to center this year" stuff.  Considering the current linemen on the roster, nobody is capable.  If they were, they would've made that move sometime during the '07 season.

With that said, I'd be in favor of seeing what Alex Stepanovich's (Bengals) price tag would be.  I don't really know what the going rate is for a good center, but if it's a little more than what Mahan signed for, I'd be perfectly cool with that.  One thing's for sure, a FA OC is definitely cheaper than a FA OT.  And, as bad as the Bengal line is/was, it's not because of their OC.  Their problem was more on the edges.

Cut Mahan post 6/1 and save about a million and a half in cap space.

Sign Stepanovich to a 4 or 5 year deal (he's only 26).

Keep the draft priorities the same.

O-line/D-line with a wildcard of WR, S, RB, ILB as a third option.

Same proposed lineup I mentioned earlier only with Stepanovich as the starting OC.
Logged

We suck because our drafts have been THE SUCK.
LambertsFrontTeeth
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 1617
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,462



« Reply #30 on: Jan 17, 2008 at 18:21 »

Quote
One thing's for sure, a FA OC is definitely cheaper than a FA OT.

I agree; it's one of the reasons I'm in favor of that, as it would be (relative to other spots, of course) cheap. Also frees up draft spots to OT/OG/DL.

Quote
And, as bad as the Bengal line is/was, it's not because of their OC.  Their problem was more on the edges.


Not so sure about THAT, though...I thought that the Bengal O-line was much less of a force this year, and I'm not sure how much might have been due to Step.

Still, however good/bad he might be, I have no doubt he's better than Mahan. If the price is right, bring his ass in.
 
Logged

"Dreith said I hit Sipe too hard. I hit him as hard as I could. Brian has a chance to go out of bounds and he decides not to. He knows I'm going to hit him. And I do. History."
- - - Jack Lambert, after referee Ben Dreith ejected him from a game for knocking out Browns QB Brian Sipe.
aj_law
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5538
Offline Offline

Posts: 15,175


« Reply #31 on: Jan 18, 2008 at 09:59 »

Quote
Quote
And, as bad as the Bengal line is/was, it's not because of their OC.
Logged

We suck because our drafts have been THE SUCK.
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12195
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,377



« Reply #32 on: Jan 18, 2008 at 10:14 »

I thought that the Browns adding Steinback and Thomas would have a major impact, as well as the negative impact for the Bengals.  Steinach apparently was a big swing factor, and IMO highlights how much we undervalue the OG spot.  With Simmons still not up to snuff, and Faneca IMO already declining, is it any wonder our line has suffered an inside-out attrition?  

I keep thinking that we'd be wise to pick up Roy Scheuning in R2-3.  Don't know why, but I think he'd solidify the line in a huge way.  One spot described him as a technician, more Logan Mankins than Ben Grubbs.  Well, fine.  I was worried about hime being "too finesse" until I saw him in the bowl game playing RT, traditionally a mauler position.  He was much bigger than I remembered, and frankly, he fucking dominated.  Good strength and foot speed.

At LG, he'd be a guy who (like Faneca) could be called on in an emergency to play OT.  And he's bigger than Colon, but then, who isn't.  Gets props for being a tough guy, not missing time, even playing through walking pneumonia.  
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
Pages: 1 2 ... 4 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal
| Sitemap
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!