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Author Topic: Curious...  (Read 1654 times)
Preacherman0
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« on: May 14, 2008 at 12:48 »

I can't decide if this is even worth the effort!

In theory, I completely agree with Arlen Specter about Roger "Sweep" Goodell.  I think the NFL has tried to cover this up, I think they wanted to sweep it under the rug as fast as possible, and I think they are hoping it will go away without being pressured to do anything else.

I also think the punishment handed out by the commissioner is gross hypocrisy and incredibly lenient.  Fines mean absolutely nothing.  It's basically like giving a warning for driving 137 in a 25.  If you're going to slap players around for off-field incidents, then shouldn't due diligence be applied to on-the-field incidents?  You know, going to a strip club isn't against the law, or even against NFL rules.  It's not smart, it's not good, but it's not illegal.  Yet, we all have a stroke when Pacman does it before meeting with the commish.  Now, a coach is permitted to lie and an organization is let off with a slap on the wrist for cheating.  What does that tell you?

I admire Specter's homer-ism in trying to defend the teams and fans in his home state.  And make no mistake, I don't believe he'd be doing this if the Stillers (and possibly the Iggles) were not victimized by this.  That's what he's supposed to do, protect the interests of his constituants.  Let's not fool ourselves--the NFL is a huge money-maker in PA and around the country, and there are billions of dollars involved in this "industry," which may justify looking into the practices of the people that run it.

On the down side, however, do we really need millions to be invested in this investigation, which will probably go nowhere?  Should we use tax dollars to keep banging into the stonewall that the league will inevitably put up?  This is becoming a power struggle between a senator and the commish, and neither is going to budge.  

As much as I would love to see the heat put on the league and the Pastries, I'm not sure it's worth it.  We have much more pressing issues, to be sure.  It's not that I think it's exactly wrong to call for an investigation.  It just seems like a low priority for the government.
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pensodyssey
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2008 at 11:15 »

Hold on, NFL. Spygate isn't over. Not if the "incensed" Philadelphia Eagles fan in Congress has anything to do with it.

When this article was first posted, it named Specter as a "Pittsburgh Steelers" fan.  I can imagine the barrage of angry emails they got, most of them likely from Specter's office.  Also, I doubt you'll see it on the espn corrections page.

You're right, preach.  It's not worth going after.  Not with Kraft's rim-jobbing buddy in charge of the NFL.  Things are going to get worse-- alot worse-- with the NFL in the near future.  Like our country, it's a plutocracy; in the words of Bobbi Fleckman, money talks, bullshit walks.
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steelerfaninCO
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2008 at 12:19 »

I'm convinced that Goodell/NFL found evidence that the Pats cheated in SB's, and thats why the evidence was immediately destroyed. The NFL can't have their marquee game's integrity questioned. Not only would it obviousy hurt their rep with loyal fans, but more importantly, there is no way to go back and redo all the legal, and illegal, wagering on the games.

As much as I hate the Pats, and its a lot, and would love to see them go down in flames, its not worth the time and money to go after this further. Unless the magic Rams' walk through tape appears, this is dead. Goodell and the NFL will ultimately win this. At least that whiny little bitch Brady and the head cheater lost in the SB. Karma can be a bitch sometime.
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msdmnr2002
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2008 at 12:56 »

:sheep1:

Agreed.  Most people south and west of Bristol knows it's a coverup.  However, there are bigger fish to fry, and this needs to be let go.
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Preacherman0
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2008 at 14:42 »

Let me add that I firmly believe these tapes were used during the games to benefit the Patriots.  Not provable, but why else would they go so far with this if it didn't reap immediate benefits?

What's Kenneth Starr up to these days?

If he spent 40 million to find out who Slick Willy diddled in the oval office, he should be able to solve this for...what...20 million, tops???

Again, as Penso said, not worth it.
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Big Virgil
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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2008 at 08:27 »

Quote
Not only would it obviousy hurt their rep with loyal fans, but more importantly, there is no way to go back and redo all the legal, and illegal, wagering on the games.

 
This implies that not only does the NFL control and benefit from gambling, but that there is also some plan for the overall outcome.  e.g. "$29.99 follow my picks and you can KILL YOUR MAN.  Plus my very own lock of the week"

The NFL doesn't benefit in any way from gambling and this has absolutely nothing to do with anything related to policy decisions or rulemaking.
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Looks like you've been missing a lot of work lately.
I wouldn't say I've been *missing* it, Bob.
steelerfaninCO
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2008 at 09:38 »

Quote
Quote
Not only would it obviousy hurt their rep with loyal fans, but more importantly, there is no way to go back and redo all the legal, and illegal, wagering on the games.

 
This implies that not only does the NFL control and benefit from gambling, but that there is also some plan for the overall outcome.  e.g. "$29.99 follow my picks and you can KILL YOUR MAN.  Plus my very own lock of the week"

The NFL doesn't benefit in any way from gambling and this has absolutely nothing to do with anything related to policy decisions or rulemaking.
Dude, you are seriously naive, or just not paying attention. The NFL greatly benefits from gambling on the games, especially the Super Bowl, much the way March Madness benefits from all the pools, and legal betting. Of course its not directly benefiting through direct profits due to gaming, but why do you think ESPN and every other news outlet posts the line on the games? Because no one is interested? Come on man, the NFL has used gambling to enhance interest in their sport better than everyone except boxing. Would you say the same about boxing?... Also its not like the NFL is going to come out and say the gambling directly dictates policy, but there would be a serious problem if the results of the most heavily wagered game in the world was comprimised by cheating, and it was publicly confirmed. You should read the recent last page SI article where the writer wishes everyone would say what they mean. He says the NFL's slogan should be, NFL Bet on it! They aren't controling the outcomes, but to say that the NFL doesn't benefit from betting on the games is totaly untrue. It creates much more interest in the games, and increases TV ratings. And not just in Vegas.
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Big Virgil
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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2008 at 13:36 »

The whole point of your argument is where I disagree.  I'm not saying there isn't an indirect relationship, but the NFL doesn't depend on gambling, gambling depends on the NFL, and every other sport, for that matter.  Gamblers didn't get together and create fotball, baseball, and basketball so they would have something to bet on.  The games were created from someone's idea.  Because there is a clear defined outcome, people wager on it.  

Vegas puts out odds, to entice people to gamble, so they (Vegas) make money.  Do you think "Vegas" would even put out odds and whatever else, if they weren't making money?  The more they promote their services (odds, over/under, winner of coing flip, etc) the more money they make.  (I equate this to car leases.  People think it is such a godsend that they can lease a car.  Do they really think leases would be available if it wasn't more profitable than just selling cars?)

The NFL has a duty to promote fair competetion for the integrity of their own sport so people follow teams, buy merchandise etc.  And, depending on what they are really looking for, it doesn't even have to be fair.  Does pro wrestling have a problem drawing fans, Boxing, etc?

Largely, fans bet on the games and they are not "NFL fans" because gambling exists, it's because they grew up wathing their favorite or local team.      
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Looks like you've been missing a lot of work lately.
I wouldn't say I've been *missing* it, Bob.
LambertsFrontTeeth
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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2008 at 15:03 »

Quote

Vegas puts out odds, to entice people to gamble, so they (Vegas) make money.  Do you think "Vegas" would even put out odds and whatever else, if they weren't making money?  The more they promote their services (odds, over/under, winner of coing flip, etc) the more money they make.  (I equate this to car leases.  People think it is such a godsend that they can lease a car.  Do they really think leases would be available if it wasn't more profitable than just selling cars?)
 
Not so much.

Sports gambling is really a loss leader;  the casinos make very little money overall when the oddsmakers do their job right.  The reason that the bigger casinos have a sports book at all is the same reason that they used to give away steaks for 2.99 -- to attract gambling junkies to their more profitable activities such as slots.
The overhead on running a sports book is killer -- it's why the smaller casinos shy away. It's just a promotion to entice people to enter the building. I assure you, the casinos would much rather you fervently play the slots.

The Super Bowl is big to the casinos because so many people come to Vegas to wager on anything and everything. The game is an excuse to lose the mortgage on all sorts of gambling. Do you really think that the lead up to the game, that the gamblers are watching pregame?Hell no, they are gambling away at the tables, the slots, etc.

 Same goes for boxing -- fight night weekends are crazy on the strip, but the actual wagering on the fight is a pittance compared to the normal casino floor operation.

 
If gamblers didn't gamble on the Super Bowl, the ratings would go down, but Vegas would still make money on something else, like UFC or something...
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steelerfaninCO
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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2008 at 01:22 »

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If gamblers didn't gamble on the Super Bowl, the ratings would go down.
Bingo. More people bet, more people watch, ratings go up, NFL makes more money. All I'm saying is that the NFL "secretly" wishes everyone would bet, and its all about ratings. Betters not only watch the home market games, but other games as well, increasing the ratings. And ratings determine how much the networks pay the NFL to broadcast their games, and the SB, which is a separate contract. Fantasy football is a great example. If you pay to be in a league, and there are winnings to be had, you are betting on individual performances as opposed to team performances. Its still gambling, the same as filling out a March Madness bracket for money is gambling. People who are into fantasy football watch a ton of games unrelated to their fav team or home market, increasing ratings. They buy NFL Sunday Ticket. They buy DirecTV Superfan. Cha-Ching for the NFL. And they totally support it.

BV- there are several sports dependent on gambling. If people couldn't bet on horse racing, there wouldn't be very many people at the track. Same with dog racing and Jai alai. But I don't disagree with you about why people get into the NFL, or the other major leagues. Its not about the betting. Like I said before, all I'm saying is that the NFL, never publicly of course, behind closed doors, wants more people to bet on games. They don't care about the outcomes and all that, and they try to keep it fair(except when it comes to the Pats), but they want to increase ratings anyway they can, and people who bet on the game, watch the game.
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