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Author Topic: War  (Read 3034 times)
vinman3
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War
« Reply #10 on: Aug 14, 2008 at 13:24 »

No way that McCain or his advisers put Georgia up that. I cannot even fathom that a potential U.S. President/current U.S. leader would want to stir up a hornets nest as friggin' large as Russia. It is completely unfathomable, and to have that type of thought process is just a desperate ploy by the far left to disparage McCain. And I am not even voting for the man. It is WAYYYYYY out there man.

Having said that. If it is true (and I believe it not to be in a major way), Americans have to retake control of our country as was done in 1776. That would be a more treasonous an act on the American people as any in our history.
« Last Edit: Aug 14, 2008 at 13:25 by vinman3 » Logged

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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #11 on: Aug 14, 2008 at 13:39 »

I just find the themes of those two articles eerily similar, though from outsider and insider perspectives.  And any time someone in PNAC is involved in anything, I smell rat.  The timing seems odd to have been orchestrated by or on behalf of McCain, though.  
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« Reply #12 on: Aug 14, 2008 at 14:35 »

One other point of circumstance.  McCain was in the news yesterday as saying he speaks with the Georgian president "every day."

Also, it hardly seems coincidental that McCain's shift towards the Bush position on various policies has come about since he added in PNAC types (Kristol, Scheuneman) and ex-Karl Rove sidekick Steve Schmidt.  I think PNAC is the invisible empire that's hijacking the Republican party and US foreign policy.  They beat the drum incessantly to invade Iraq since the mid-1990s, and their 2000 report states "[f]urther, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event
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Finnegans Wake
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War
« Reply #13 on: Aug 14, 2008 at 14:36 »

Quote
Having said that. If it is true (and I believe it not to be in a major way), Americans have to retake control of our country as was done in 1776. That would be a more treasonous an act on the American people as any in our history.
I think the events of the last 8 years are tantamount to that very charge.

This country is moving in a scary direction.  
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« Reply #14 on: Aug 15, 2008 at 08:35 »

Rather coincidental.

Some say there are no coincidences in life...
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« Reply #15 on: Aug 15, 2008 at 08:55 »

As usual, Glenn Beck's analysis is about as deep as Howdy Doody.  But at least he grasps that this is a proxy war.  Well, Saakashvili said it was a proxy war, and Beck seems to comprehend.  God this guy annoys me.  His response is pretty knee-jerk.

It would be nice if some journalist could go out and really look at the US and USSR's larger strategic objectives.  Like, WHY are we pushing for Eastern European missile defense, when the Cold War is over?  
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The Emperor
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War
« Reply #16 on: Aug 15, 2008 at 23:54 »

Lets hope these threats of nuclear attack are just?   Hell no need for anybody to start this kind of useless talk.   I used to be scared as a kid in the 70,s and 80,s  Well that feeling is back!   Announcing that missile agreement now is STUPID!  Lets make a very bad situation worse???  We did not want Russian missiles in Cuba so why should they want them in there back yard.  We need to back off screwing with these Russian idiots.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080816/ap_on_...iYKFbWLzuuROrgF
« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2008 at 23:55 by The Emperor » Logged

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PghSteel-43
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« Reply #17 on: Aug 16, 2008 at 12:38 »

Quote
Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski was quoted Friday by the Polish news agency PAP as saying that Poland is open to Russian inspections because it wants to give Moscow "tangible proof" that the planned base is not directed against Russia.

U.S. officials have said the timing of the deal was not meant to antagonize Russian leaders at a time when relations already are strained over the recent fighting between Russia and Georgia over the separatist Georgian region of South Ossetia.

Personally, I have no problem with my country helping out our allies by giving them defense systems.  Both countries have served faithfully in Iraq and Afghanistan over the years.  There are plenty of countries out there that have missile defense systems.  There is a big difference between giving a country a defense system and a country moving missiles to the borders of Russia and having them aimed at Moscow.

IMO, there is also a HUGE difference between giving Poland and the CR a defense system and Russia pointing missiles at our country from Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis.  Apples and oranges in my opinion.  I can't imagine Poland or the CR attacking Russia or moving missile batteries close to Russian territory.  Although after these recent events, I can imagine it being the other way around.

From my point of view, Russia seems to be playing the "Look, America and the Allies are the aggressors" card, meanwhile they are the ones who continued to drive deeper into Georgian territory after Georgia signed a cease fire.  Poland (and CR) scratched our backs in Afghanistan and Iraq and continue to do so, now we are scratching Poland's back.  

As our U.S. officials stated, the defense system has been in the making for some time now.  It's not like Russia attacked South Ossetia and Abkhazian launching a series of air strikes against Georgian forces and we decided to hurry up and build defense systems for Poland and the CR.  Typical Russian propoganda bullshit, attempting to make it look like "woe is me, poor old Russia.  Big bad USA is being aggressive".  I've seen that face before.
« Last Edit: Aug 16, 2008 at 15:46 by PghSteel-43 » Logged
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War
« Reply #18 on: Aug 20, 2008 at 19:00 »

Quote
Quote
Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski was quoted Friday by the Polish news agency PAP as saying that Poland is open to Russian inspections because it wants to give Moscow "tangible proof" that the planned base is not directed against Russia.

U.S. officials have said the timing of the deal was not meant to antagonize Russian leaders at a time when relations already are strained over the recent fighting between Russia and Georgia over the separatist Georgian region of South Ossetia.

Personally, I have no problem with my country helping out our allies by giving them defense systems.  Both countries have served faithfully in Iraq and Afghanistan over the years.  There are plenty of countries out there that have missile defense systems.  There is a big difference between giving a country a defense system and a country moving missiles to the borders of Russia and having them aimed at Moscow.

IMO, there is also a HUGE difference between giving Poland and the CR a defense system and Russia pointing missiles at our country from Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis.  Apples and oranges in my opinion.  I can't imagine Poland or the CR attacking Russia or moving missile batteries close to Russian territory.  Although after these recent events, I can imagine it being the other way around.

From my point of view, Russia seems to be playing the "Look, America and the Allies are the aggressors" card, meanwhile they are the ones who continued to drive deeper into Georgian territory after Georgia signed a cease fire.  Poland (and CR) scratched our backs in Afghanistan and Iraq and continue to do so, now we are scratching Poland's back.  

As our U.S. officials stated, the defense system has been in the making for some time now.  It's not like Russia attacked South Ossetia and Abkhazian launching a series of air strikes against Georgian forces and we decided to hurry up and build defense systems for Poland and the CR.  Typical Russian propoganda bullshit, attempting to make it look like "woe is me, poor old Russia.  Big bad USA is being aggressive".  I've seen that face before.
None the less I heard today that Russia may be considering deploying their black Jack Bombers in Cuba.  Does anyone here really want to have a nuclear war over that missile defense system.  I know I do not!
« Last Edit: Aug 20, 2008 at 19:04 by The Emperor » Logged

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PghSteel-43
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War
« Reply #19 on: Aug 20, 2008 at 22:34 »

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None the less I heard today that Russia may be considering deploying their black Jack Bombers in Cuba.  Does anyone here really want to have a nuclear war over that missile defense system.  I know I do not!

Here's a better question to ponder, does anyone here really think Russia wants to start a nuclear war with the most powerful nation on the globe?  It's not like our arsenal of goodies consists of firecrackers and squirt guns.  Russia knows what we are packing and they realize the consequences.  Between our own defense systems and the fact that we could erase Russia off the map in two seconds, that wouldn't be a smart move on Russia's part from a military perspective.  

Besides it being a dumb move from a military perspective, Russia would take a massive amount of heat from around the world.  It would crush them economically.  They can also say bye-bye to their UN membership and NATO/EU partnership.  They would be outcasted and if they continue to travel on the road they are traveling, it's only going to get worse for Russia.  

Overall, I love the fact that we are not bending over for Russia.  Who in the hell are they tell us who we can and cannot help?  Who are they to say who can and who cannot have defense systems in this world?  Germany has a defense system, are they next?  Italy has defense systems, are they next?  By giving Poland and the CR a defense system and helping out ourselves and our allies, we have also given Russia a propoganda tool.  "Look, there's the USA and it's allies being aggressive".  Meanwhile, the defense system has been in the works for months now and Poland's President has given Russian officials permission to check it out for themselves.  The missiles are not even pointed at anyone in particular, let alone Russia.  Unfortunately, many are buying into the Russian propoganda.  I guess many can see through it and some are actually buying into it.  To me, it's as clear as day.

Eitherway, I'm not ready to start digging my underground bunker, stocking up on canned goods and water while running up and down my street screaming "the Ruskies are coming! the Ruskies are coming! Save yourselves!".  Yeah, I don't see myself turning into Patrick Swayze in the movie "Red Dawn" anytime soon.

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« Last Edit: Aug 20, 2008 at 22:38 by PghSteel-43 » Logged
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