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Author Topic: War  (Read 2870 times)
The Emperor
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War
« on: Aug 08, 2008 at 23:29 »

The war between Russia and Georgia could pull us in to a fight with Russia.  Georgia has 2000 troops in Iraq and is a strong ally of the U.S. thoughts?
« Last Edit: Aug 09, 2008 at 08:36 by The Emperor » Logged

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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #1 on: Aug 09, 2008 at 07:48 »

DAMMIT!

Russkies are screwing everything up.


The war we really want right now is with IRAN...  Now what are we gonna do?!?
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PghSteel-43
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« Reply #2 on: Aug 12, 2008 at 23:13 »

Putin wanted to flex his muscles just enough to make his point clear, he did so and now it's basically over.  There was no way in hell we were going to put boots on the ground.  We couldn't afford to.  We are fighting on two fronts, the last thing we needed to do or that we were going to do is get into a fight with Russia or with anyone else for that matter.  

My only question.....where in the hell was the UN when all this was happening?  That has to be the most useless organization in the world.  It accomplishes absolutely nothing in this world.  We are expected to solve the world's problems and when it's not done to the satisfaction of country's such as France, Germany, Russia, China etc., we get criticized.  It's a joke.
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Preacherman0
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War
« Reply #3 on: Aug 13, 2008 at 11:29 »

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The war between Russia and Georgia could pull us in to a fight with Russia. Georgia has 2000 troops in Iraq and is a strong ally of the U.S. thoughts?

My guess is that Georgia is our ally to stick it to Russia more than actually being our "friend."  

The slavic nations have been fighting longer than anyone other than arabic nations and Jews.  I doubt that it's going to stop anytime soon, or that we can do much to get it to stop.  Sit it out and let them deal with it.
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The Emperor
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 13, 2008 at 16:02 »

At the very least I think it is safe to say ( and sadly) that the cold war is back.  Putan has made a bigger fool out of Bush than he did on his own!  SAD!
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PghSteel-43
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 13, 2008 at 17:50 »

It's funny listening to some of the nimrods on CNN and MSNBC putting some of the blame on Bush because of this situation.  Hell, why not? When in doubt, blame Bush.  Seems to work.  They argue that if Bush built up a stronger relationship with Putin, this situation could have been avoided.  Ummm...yeah, sure.  I'm sure if Bush went down on Putin two-three years ago this situation could have been avoided.  I love how some are attempting (in failing manner) to put this one on Bush.

Up to this point I do not see Putin listening to Merkel, Sarkozy, Napolitano or any other leader of a major country.  Hell, minus Sarkozy, we are the only ones speaking out against the attacks or attempting to settle this little dispute.  Bush can only do so much with this situation.  What are some expecting him to do? Fire up the F-16's?  Yeah, that would go over real well in this country and around the globe.  So the guy is attempting to talk Russia out of moving any further and he's still being criticized.  The man is in a lose/lose situation.

By no means am I a fan of George W. Bush (second term), but it's amusing listening to some of these far left loons attempt to pin this on him.  Here's an idea, call up the UN and tell them to do something about it.  Be useful for once or are they still counting the cash from the Oil-For-Food Programme?  Hey, we can call up Benon Sevan, he will help clear up this situation!  
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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #6 on: Aug 13, 2008 at 18:09 »

I agree with you on this one, Pgh-Steel.  Good analyses.  The whole South Ossetia uprising was pretty much staged by Russia as premise for invasion, and Putin wants to make sure that whatever overtures Georgia (and Ukraine) make to the West, they don't give up too much.  And the US and Europe may want those countries in NATO or the G8, but they sure as hell aren't putting boots on the ground.  

Don't see it as the Cold War revisited, so much as Russia reasserting some boundaries.  They made their point: when the shit hits the fan, there's no cavalry, kids.  So listen to Papa Putin.  

IMO, the blue helmets had their chance to make an impact in the 90s with some African genocide, and flopped.  Hell, where were they in the Israeli-Palestinian shit?  They are definitely now toothless, and have been, and will be.  UN is a bully pulpit, or a place where resolutions are passed to allow bullies to start bullshit wars.
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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #7 on: Aug 14, 2008 at 09:38 »

I will add one point to the Georgia war, and that is the connection of Randy Scheunemann to the McCain campaign.  With the likes of this guy and Bill Kristol, McCain is moving into some very, very troubling territory.  Scheunemann is, IMO, one evil mother.  Just Google him up and you can't help but see Georgia as some pawn in the ongoing PNAC machinations that led to the Iraq war.  I mean, for chrissakes, if this is about Georgia's oil pipelines and getting Georgia a US military presence, I don't know what kind of country we're becoming.
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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #8 on: Aug 14, 2008 at 11:39 »

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"Is it possible that this time the October surprise was tried in August, and that the garbage issue of brave little Georgia struggling for its survival from the grasp of the Russian bear was stoked to influence the U.S. presidential election?

Before you dismiss that possibility, consider the role of one Randy Scheunemann, for four years a paid lobbyist for the Georgian government who ended his official lobbying connection only in March, months after he became Republican presidential candidate John McCain
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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #9 on: Aug 14, 2008 at 11:40 »

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MOSCOW -- The past week's events in South Ossetia are bound to shock and pain anyone. Already, thousands of people have died, tens of thousands have been turned into refugees, and towns and villages lie in ruins. Nothing can justify this loss of life and destruction. It is a warning to all. The roots of this tragedy lie in the decision of Georgia's separatist leaders in 1991 to abolish South Ossetian autonomy. This turned out to be a time bomb for Georgia's territorial integrity. Each time successive Georgian leaders tried to impose their will by force -- both in South Ossetia and in Abkhazia, where the issues of autonomy are similar -- it only made the situation worse. New wounds aggravated old injuries. Nevertheless, it was still possible to find a political solution. For some time, relative calm was maintained in South Ossetia. The peacekeeping force composed of Russians, Georgians and Ossetians fulfilled its mission, and ordinary Ossetians and Georgians, who live close to each other, found at least some common ground.
Through all these years, Russia has continued to recognize Georgia's territorial integrity. Clearly, the only way to solve the South Ossetian problem on that basis is through peaceful means. Indeed, in a civilized world, there is no other way. The Georgian leadership flouted this key principle.

What happened on the night of Aug. 7 is beyond comprehension. The Georgian military attacked the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali with multiple rocket launchers designed to devastate large areas. Russia had to respond. To accuse it of aggression against "small, defenseless Georgia" is not just hypocritical but shows a lack of humanity.
Mounting a military assault against innocents was a reckless decision whose tragic consequences, for thousands of people of different nationalities, are now clear. The Georgian leadership could do this only with the perceived support and encouragement of a much more powerful force. Georgian armed forces were trained by hundreds of U.S. instructors, and its sophisticated military equipment was bought in a number of countries. This, coupled with the promise of NATO membership, emboldened Georgian leaders into thinking that they could get away with a "blitzkrieg" in South Ossetia.

In other words, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili was expecting unconditional support from the West, and the West had given him reason to think he would have it. Now that the Georgian military assault has been routed, both the Georgian government and its supporters should rethink their position. Hostilities must cease as soon as possible, and urgent steps must be taken to help the victims -- the humanitarian catastrophe, regretfully, received very little coverage in Western media this weekend -- and to rebuild the devastated towns and villages. It is equally important to start thinking about ways to solve the underlying problem, which is among the most painful and challenging issues in the Caucasus -- a region that should be approached with the greatest care.
not just in the Caucasus.

The writer was the last president of the Soviet Union. He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1990 and is president of the Gorbachev Foundation
« Last Edit: Aug 14, 2008 at 11:41 by Finnegans Wake » Logged

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