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Author Topic: Week 10 - Nov. 9 vs. Indianapolis  (Read 4524 times)
SCacalaki
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« Reply #30 on: Nov 09, 2008 at 18:43 »

As expected, I see blame is being thrown at Ben for the INTs.  For weeks people have been screaming for more short passes.  More dumps to the TEs and RBs.  More slants.  Etc.. Well we got that today.  And guess what.  That requires absolute perfection.  If the QB and WR are not on precisely the same page, bad things happen.

Please explain the last sentence and how it specifically applies to throwing more to RBs and TEs.  Not that I disagree, rather I'm unclear what you're trying to say here.

Why does it require absolute perfection v. those times when Ben is throwing to WRs only?  Who is required to be perfect?  In what situations? 

If the WR and QB aren't on the same page, it wouldn't seem that throwing more to RBs/TEs is really an issue.  I don't see how throwing more to the TEs/RBs makes for a stronger argument of WRs and Ben being on the same page.  It seems they should be on the same page, regardless of the situation.  Or is that comment separate from the more throws to the TEs/RBs, slants, etc.?

These might be independent ideas that don't relate.  If they are to relate, it's confusing to piece them together.

Agree re: the OL.  The Steelers have a mess there.  Colon, Hartwig and Stapleton are the only three I'd keep, though Colon would have to play guard as he is no tackle prospect. 

Holmes is responsible for that second INT.  The first was on Ben.  The last didn't matter.

I didn't understand some of the play calling by Arians.  The three runs at the GL..would have liked to see a PA on 3rd.  Thought they gave up on the run on the series prior to Indy's last TD. 

Poor clock management by Ben for sure. 
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give'emthaboot
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« Reply #31 on: Nov 09, 2008 at 18:50 »

I don't care about 3 runs in a row from the goal line, but they ran the EXACT same play on both 2nd & 3rd down. 

I really wish Tomlin would have just had the offense run the ball at the end of the half.  No need to force anything at that point, especially given the field position.  Going into the half up 17-7, or even 17-10 if we have to punt and they get a field goal would have made a world of difference.

The next 3 games certainly look winnable, let's hope Balty suffers a loss during that stretch. 

Oh, and we need McFadden back.  Deshea Townsend is not an effective corner anymore.
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steelerfaninCO
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« Reply #32 on: Nov 09, 2008 at 18:55 »

. And as soon as a WR stops one stride two short (INT #2), as soon as a WR and a QB read things differently (INT #1), people forget that they got exactly what they wanted.  


[/quote/]

I have to disagree. The first INT was under thrown. Period. The second INT was a lock on and a force by Ben. BR still does NOT progress through his reads. Now, I'm NOT putting this loss all on Ben. Bad breaks, poor OL play, and poor play calling all contributed. But to absolve Ben of all culpability for this loss is just not reality. He isn't making good decisions. Its understandable with the play calling, the shit OL, and the nagging injuries, but he does bear some of the responsibility here. Now. people are going to continue to say the more Ben passes, the less chance of winning, at that has been true now for pretty much his entire career. I put that on a poor pass blocking OL. But now they not only can't pass block, they can't get a power run game either. The FO and coaching staff are on the hook here.

Tough, tough, loss in game that should have been clearly won. Now tied with Balty. They still have to play the NFC East though..... with the Gints, and now the Dolts, thats 2 home games given away. Start protecting the house, and fucking fire BA already. No more WR end arounds please!
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steelerfaninCO
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« Reply #33 on: Nov 09, 2008 at 18:58 »

 And as soon as a WR stops one stride two short (INT #2), as soon as a WR and a QB read things differently (INT #1), people forget that they got exactly what they wanted.  



Try it again...

I have to disagree. The first INT was under thrown. Period. The second INT was a lock on and a force by Ben. BR still does NOT progress through his reads. Now, I'm NOT putting this loss all on Ben. Bad breaks, poor OL play, and poor play calling all contributed. But to absolve Ben of all culpability for this loss is just not reality. He isn't making good decisions. Its understandable with the play calling, the shit OL, and the nagging injuries, but he does bear some of the responsibility here. Now. people are going to continue to say the more Ben passes, the less chance of winning, at that has been true now for pretty much his entire career. I put that on a poor pass blocking OL. But now they not only can't pass block, they can't get a power run game either. The FO and coaching staff are on the hook here.

Tough, tough, loss in game that should have been clearly won. Now tied with Balty. They still have to play the NFC East though..... with the Gints, and now the Dolts, thats 2 home games given away. Start protecting the house, and fucking fire BA already. No more WR end arounds please!

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jcharding
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« Reply #34 on: Nov 09, 2008 at 19:08 »

As expected, I see blame is being thrown at Ben for the INTs.  For weeks people have been screaming for more short passes.  More dumps to the TEs and RBs.  More slants.  Etc.. Well we got that today.  And guess what.  That requires absolute perfection.  If the QB and WR are not on precisely the same page, bad things happen.

Please explain the last sentence and how it specifically applies to throwing more to RBs and TEs.  Not that I disagree, rather I'm unclear what you're trying to say here.

Why does it require absolute perfection v. those times when Ben is throwing to WRs only?  Who is required to be perfect?  In what situations? 

If the WR and QB aren't on the same page, it wouldn't seem that throwing more to RBs/TEs is really an issue.  I don't see how throwing more to the TEs/RBs makes for a stronger argument of WRs and Ben being on the same page.  It seems they should be on the same page, regardless of the situation.  Or is that comment separate from the more throws to the TEs/RBs, slants, etc.?

These might be independent ideas that don't relate.  If they are to relate, it's confusing to piece them together.

Agree re: the OL.  The Steelers have a mess there.  Colon, Hartwig and Stapleton are the only three I'd keep, though Colon would have to play guard as he is no tackle prospect. 

Holmes is responsible for that second INT.  The first was on Ben.  The last didn't matter.

I didn't understand some of the play calling by Arians.  The three runs at the GL..would have liked to see a PA on 3rd.  Thought they gave up on the run on the series prior to Indy's last TD. 

Poor clock management by Ben for sure. 

What I am saying is that we saw a different passing offense today that incorporated shorter drops and shorter routes.  Ben did a good job in using RBs and TEs, Ben also threw lots of shorties to WRs.  I link the two concepts because it represents a change in philosophy - a short passing game rather than a focus on 15 yard routes. The problem is that a combined short passing game and running game leads to defenses really shrinking the amount of field they must defend.  It leads to smaller passing windows - especially on routes to the middle of the field.  It requires more precision.  The downside to that precision is that it becomes harder to run (the Colts rushing defense was supposedly terrible) and if anything bad happens in terms of timing on passing downs, it leads to turnovers.

The first INT may be Ben's fault, but its hard to tell when the QB and WR were on entirely different pages.  It might have been a bad throw, but we have no idea because the route clearly differed from what Ben expected (some kind of a curl-in or slanting route, whereas Santonio kept running).  The same occurred on the second INT.  Ben expected Santonio keep running, whereas Holmes ran some kind of a slant stop.  

Are these correctable issues - sure.  A new brain for Bluntman and more practice time for Ben would help. But it doesn't change the underlying problem.  For years the Steeler defense has built around the idea that giving up short passes are OK because eventually the offense will screw it up.  And for years the Steeler defense has been very good at preventing long plays, preventing TDs, and otherwise playing good D.  The offense is now trying to implement the very thing that the Steeler defense prefers to give up.  Sadly, the offensive line is incapable of blocking in any obvious passing down.  Maybe Ben needs to do a better job in identifying blitzes and pointing them out the his OL - Peyton is very good at it.  Of course Peyton may be the best of all time at doing this, so that may be a little too much to expect.

Yes, I realize that this is largely post loss venting.  I just have never been able to comprehend how shorter routes, with more WR slants, and more 3 step drops, will result in a more productive offense.  I certainly didn't see it today, and the Colts defense, while opportunistic, is not nearly as good as other defenses we have faced and will continue to face. I would rather give up 4-6 sacks, and have Ben take chances, and win the game, than have lots of this short stuff and lose.

On a more positive note, it was as always fascinating to watch the Colts offense play the Steeler defense.  There may be no better offense vs. defense chess game in the NFL.
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« Reply #35 on: Nov 11, 2008 at 11:57 »

Really, I thought this was a game of two halves.  Well, more like a game of two parts.  The first 27:00 minutes and the last 33:00 minutes.

For that first chunk, Pittsburgh totally shut Indy down.  IIRC, when the Indy offense took the field after that BR INT just before the half, Manning had something like 80 yards and change through the air.  Subtract that TD pass that went through #24's hands to Wayne and I'd bet we'd be talking about a record low offensive performance for the Colts for an opening half.  Offensively, they looked pretty good and it seemed like everyone was on the same page, even the O-line looked decent.  It didn't really look to me like Ben was showing any ill effects of the shoulder bothering him.  I mean, did you see him on that flea flicker?  Moore tosses it back high and to the right and Ben snatches it out of the air with one arm, his "bad" arm, jukes/sidesteps a defender and heaves it probably 50+ yards downfield.  It wasn't the prettiest pass, but I think the pressure he was under and the fact that he wasn't able to completely set himself played a bigger role in why it looked like it did.  Still, that was a play that very few, if any, QBs pull off in this league.  If there was any question as to whether he was physically ready/able to play in that game, that lone play should've served as a pretty good answer to that.

Now, when they got the ball back with a little under two minutes left in the half, I'll admit that I was one of those people that said, "c'mon, don't just go run, run, run, punt or run, run, pass, punt here."  In retrospect, it probably would've been the "safe" play, but they had nice scoring drives in two of their last three possessions.  To me, with at least two timeouts left (I believe) there was no reason to believe that they couldn't move the ball and at least get in FG range.  I was so quick to kill the coaching staff last year against Jacksonville when they took the ball outta Ben's hands on their final drive when they called that QB sweep so I gotta give them credit for having the confidence to let #7 drop back and sling it 2 out of three times here.  Folks, when you have a franchise QB, that's what teams do.  They don't just play it safe and run the clock out and punt.  They grab their QB by the facemask and say, "go out there and get it done."  If the QB comes through, they look like geniuses.  If they throw a critical INT and put their team in a hole, they look like idiots.

As bad as that INT was though, I don't think that was their (and specifically, BR's) biggest problem.  After the Colts came out in the 3rd quarter, marched the field and tied it, I got the distinct feeling that the offense (and again, specifically BR) never recovered from that setback before the half.  All of the loosey, goosey shit; the laughing; the decisiveness; the confidence, was gone.  The team looked tight and completely out of rhythm.  Early on, they looked like they were having fun and playing the game, but now, they looked like they just wanted this game to be over.  Basically, being tentative, playing not to lose and not wanting to make any more critical mistakes.  That kind of approach never gets you the "W."

A loss is always tough to swallow.  When the team plays pretty well, as a whole, and you lose, it's even tougher.  They had some bad breaks and unfortunate bounces go against them and when they did make a mistake, it was at a very inopportune time (i.e. deep in their own zone as opposed to being on the other side of the 50).  Still, the defense looked pretty good (again); the offensive line looked better; Ben made a couple killer mistakes, but he completed around 70% of his passes and showed glimpses.  If he can just get his head on completely straight and everybody can get on the same page, I think they'll be fine.  All of 'em.

And please, for those that are second guessing whether BFL should've started on Sunday or suggesting that he should start next Sunday against the Chargers, just stop.  He...is...not...the.. .answer.  I've said it for what seems like forever...this team will go as far as #7 will take them.  He's gonna have his off days.  He's gonna make mistakes.  All the great ones do at some point or another.  The key is being able to block out the negative plays/days and move on.  Again, if he's healthy enough to go, #7 needs to be on the field to work through this.  Sitting on the bench when he's able will do nothing to improve his performance.

He's.  Their.  Guy.  Through thick and thin.  Sink or swim.  That's what having a franchise QB is all about.
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« Reply #36 on: Nov 11, 2008 at 12:34 »

Quote
Again, if he's healthy enough to go, #7 needs to be on the field to work through this.

Did you see that wobbler of a pass to Ward on the flicker? If he's healthy, then he's got a little Progeria in the right arm.

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Sitting on the bench when he's able will do nothing to improve his performance.

Dunno. Looks like he learned how to use the short dump off after watching the 2nd half of the Skins game.

Hope he heals up by the Balty game, because that could literally be his last game of the season.
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