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Author Topic: The o-line is garbage...  (Read 2389 times)
ben2hines4six
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« on: Sep 21, 2008 at 17:40 »

There, I said it. I no longer want to hear they are playing better, things are improving, they need to gel, etc etc....when the Steelers play a good team, the line folds like a cheap tent.

Sadly with Ben and the D we are still playoff capable, but likely nothing more behind this line....Jacksonville behind a make-shift RESERVE line has been protecting better than the Steelers have with their "starters".

I really hate to be doom and gloom but we have to stop denying that the line is awful (not a weakness, AWFUL).

I am not sure how the Steelers have kept this game as close as they have, but next year the draft must be priority 1, 2, 3 ALL O LINE!!!

Something must be done and this cannot continue, cause #7 will get killed =(.

That said, Go Steelers!!
 
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PghSteel-43
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« Reply #1 on: Sep 21, 2008 at 17:52 »

And that's why I wanted to wait untilt we actually had a true test before I stated praising that line.  At this point, I just want to see our QB get out of this game healthy and alive.

F-ing safety, our running game does not exist and our QB is getting the shit kicked out him on every play.  It's amazing that this game is this close.  
« Last Edit: Sep 21, 2008 at 17:54 by PghSteel-43 » Logged
ben2hines4six
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« Reply #2 on: Sep 21, 2008 at 18:11 »

and there goes Ben....season OVER if he is out any length of time
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« Reply #3 on: Sep 21, 2008 at 19:30 »

Sure, the line blows - we all know this. But come on - Ben shows no ability/willingness to get rid of the ball to prevent the sack. I'd say it's 70 percent the o-line's fault, 30 percent BR's fault.


And I don't want to hear him whining to media about his injuries this week.  
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jburghfan
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« Reply #4 on: Sep 21, 2008 at 19:44 »

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Ben shows no ability/willingness to get rid of the ball to prevent the sack.

Yeah....He does hold onto the ball too long.....But, he has made alot of big plays by doing so....

So let's give him that....


On the other hand, the OL is horrible....Key Vincent & Oliver Ross played better than this group, with much less ability......They at least had some fucking balls and would punch someone in the mouth.....


At seasons end, we need to release Marvel Smith and Max Starks and get some OL-men who ill get down and dirty.....I don't care about physical ability.....I don't care about test scores.....Just get some players that will FUCKING HIT SOMEBODY!!!
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« Reply #5 on: Sep 21, 2008 at 19:47 »

I did not think we would win this game!  But fuck the Oline is $%##$%#%$#
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« Reply #6 on: Sep 21, 2008 at 20:02 »

Seemed a mix of things today...starting with the OL, which was atrocious.  

Ben didn't help himself today holding on to the football.  The throw across his body, late in the 4th, to the left side of the field said it wasn't all on the OL.

If Arians did change anything at halftime, it didn't matter.

 
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ben2hines4six
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« Reply #7 on: Sep 21, 2008 at 20:36 »

Hey guys, all good points.

I do agree it's partly Ben holding the ball too long (at times), and part Arian's refusal to call quicker pass plays/shorter drops....but seriously....there were A LOT of times when Ben would drop back (and not even be at the end of his drop) and have a defender (or two, or three) ALL over him...like seriously, there is no way that can keep happening OVER and OVER and not be the lines fault...no play calling or quick reads by Ben will prevent him from getting sacked when there is pressure all over him in litereally 0.5 seconds.

Having said that, I think we all agree/knew the line sucked...the question is how much so, and if it can be overcome...time will tell, I guess..but being someone who does not usually get overly dramatic about losses, I just cannot see this team being much more than a one and done in the playoffs with this level of play from the o-line.

J-Burgh, exactly....to me, it's about having a few guys who have the stones willingness to mix it up hit some guys in the mouth.

For the record, I also did not expect the Steelers to win this game, so the loss in and of itself is not that concerning to me...it is more so the way in which they lost, and the manner in which they were dominated and outworked in every phase of the game (exception being some pretty good play by the D, IMO).
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« Reply #8 on: Sep 21, 2008 at 21:32 »

sure the OL gave up 9 sacks, but i wouldnt pin this loss squarely on their shoulders.  Thought FWP was TWP (tentative Willie Parker).  he played like shit IMO.  plays where he should have at least gained 5-6 yards or more, he got 2 because he didnt hit the hole quick enough.  Ben held onto the ball a little too much, and some of the playcalling was garbage.

was hoping for a miracle win on the road when the team didnt play their best ball.  but hey, its one loss against an NFC team.  One of the little perks for being in the AFCN is the other teams are worse off than the steelers.  could be worse, we could have got pasted at home against the dolphins.
 
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« Reply #9 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 00:15 »

Anyone happy at the schedule.? Seeing the Ravens (2), Jags, Pats, Giants, Titans.  We will face a lot of amazing pass rushes.  It is not because I want to see Ben killed.  I just think you should learn how to swim by jumping in the deep end.  If we can come out of it and still make the playoffs, I see better things than one and done.  

 
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« Reply #10 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 05:33 »

The play calling was horseshit.....We are playing against a smaller, quicker front 7 that's blitzing every down and we know it......RUN THE FUCKING FOOTBALL DOWN THEIR THROATS !!!


We abandoned the run way too early...What happened to being patient with the running game?.....What happened to winning through attrition?...

This was a game that punting and field position played a big part in the outcome...As did multiple sacks and pre-snap penalties......

We would have been better off with 2 yard Parker runs and a punt.....
« Last Edit: Sep 22, 2008 at 05:36 by jburghfan » Logged
vinman3
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« Reply #11 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 06:11 »

The OLine sucked yesterday. To try to pin anything on FWP is just insanity. He was dodging guys as much as Ben was when he got a handoff. Hell, even one time Ben almost handed it off to a D-lineman of Philly before Parker. How on earth can you say TWP? Have to think with that much going on in the backfield, it would be difficult at best to find a hole.

Hope the offense is ready for a blitzfest the rest of the season. There is your recipe for success against the Steelers.
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« Reply #12 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 08:08 »

The Steelers O-line was to Eagles defenders, what Terri Schiavo was to balloons.
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« Reply #13 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 08:28 »

The Eagles just had the better scheme.  Marvel can't hold the edge, and Bunkley simply overpowered Hartwig.  Not to mention, they threw more guys than our OL could pick up.  JMO, but when it's that ugly up front, BA needs to make the adjustment.  There's going to be something out in the flats, or short routes where we can pass for 5 yards on a mismatch, but I saw no evidence of that.

And we used the no huddle exactly zero times.  ZERO.

Wouldn't that seem to be an effective option to back down the blitz?  Huh?
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« Reply #14 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 08:41 »

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And we used the no huddle exactly zero times.  ZERO.

Wouldn't that seem to be an effective option to back down the blitz?  Huh?
We were screaming about that the entire game.
I don't know if Arians is just a slow learner, or completely inept...
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vinman3
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« Reply #15 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 08:41 »

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I don't know if Arians is just a slow learner, or completely inept...
Yes.
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« Reply #16 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 08:47 »

Yeah, that's 3 things I certainly agree with - should have run MUCH more, don't blame it on Parker and there was ZERO no huddle.  It's like Arians wanted to make sure Philly had plenty of time to bring in fresh blitzers.  And really, Philly didn't even need to blitz to shut it down - they knew where Ben would be for the next 3-5 seconds following a snap.  WTFingF?

The OL better bring 2x4s next week.  

 
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vinman3
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« Reply #17 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 08:53 »

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they knew where Ben would be for the next 3-5 seconds following a snap.  WTFingF?
Don't you mean .35 seconds? How often did Ben actually have 3 seconds?
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« Reply #18 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 08:58 »

True dat, double true.  Arians was calling plays that would take up to 10 times longer to develop than there was time.  He somehow thought Ben, Willie and the Philly front 8 could somehow occupy the same space at the same time.

Somebody get that man a physics book, stat!  This has to be a terrible misunderstanding.
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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #19 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 10:44 »

Dallas allowed 0 sacks.  They dumped off to RBs and TEs 14 times.

St. Lou dumped it off 8 times.

We dumped off 4 times.  Every time the ball went to Miller, it was a nice gainer.  So let's not do that, right?

Aside from the pass to RM that was thrown a bit outside, did we throw AT ALL to the RBs?  No.

I'm sorry, Arians is really chafing my balls.
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« Reply #20 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 10:53 »

I agree that the O-line sucked enormously large donkey balls but how many times did BR double or triple pump a throw and then get sacked. I recall screaming at the TV at least 6 times saying just throw the damn ball.

Basically I am not putting it all on the O-line, Ben just doesn't get rid of it sometimes. Oh and the playcalling is garbage, that I do agree with.  
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« Reply #21 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 10:58 »

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Not to mention, they threw more guys than our OL could pick up.  JMO, but when it's that ugly up front, BA needs to make the adjustment.  There's going to be something out in the flats, or short routes where we can pass for 5 yards on a mismatch, but I saw no evidence of that.

And we used the no huddle exactly zero times.  ZERO.

Wouldn't that seem to be an effective option to back down the blitz?  Huh?
Word for word, man.  Word for fucking word.

How many times were they going to show a replay where I counted 5, 6, 7 (!!) guys coming and Pittsburgh did nothing to counteract it.  Zip.

I've heard that Arians scripts something like his first 30 plays or so and I distinctly got the impression that he wasn't deviating from that regardless of what the defense was doing.

C'mon.  They've just blitzed like 5 out of the last 6 and you're lining up in a single back, trips bunch formation where the WRs could basically reach out and fondle the TEs sack??  Spread those fuckers ou-t.  4 wide; sideline to sideline; use motion that actually forces the defense to do something.  You pretty much already know that they're playing straight up, why not motion to free up an area?  Nah, let's motion Ward in, then back or in to be stacked on a TE (obv running play).

This was my gripe last year and it still holds true, I don't have a problem with favoring the pass over the run, but you've still gotta do a good job of choosing the correct play.  No huddle would've definitely helped.  3 step or shotgun quick strikes (read: '07 Pastries) would've helped too.  Mix it up with the run from those sets as well.

Honestly, it felt like they were in Pittsburgh's huddle or maybe as I've feared, Arians really is that bad.
« Last Edit: Sep 22, 2008 at 11:00 by aj_law » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 11:02 »

Well, this answers all of my questions before I even need to ask them.

Didn't see the game (mercifully).  Fortunately I had church stuff.  Much better to focus on the Lord than on what must have been a burnt offering to Baal.  

My main questions:  Was it just piss-poor oline play?  Or did Bruce & Ben muck it up trying to throw the 30-yard post all night?  Sounds like there was plenty of both.

I am sure that we got exposed up front.  But IMO, it is the COACH'S responsibility to make the necessary adjustment to what the defense was doing.  We knew Philly was going to blitz all night, and it sounds like we didn't prepare for that before the game or adjust to it during the game.  When are Tomlin and BA going to realize that, in this league, you don't win if you don't make adjustments?

We griped about this when Cowher was coaching, and it looks like the more things change, the more they stay the same.
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« Reply #23 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 12:23 »

The OL got nuked.  Of the 9 sacks, 6.5 were by defensive lineman.  While the blitz was disruptive, the line completely failed at bocking the people directlyt in front of them.  Of the remaining 2.5 sacks, 1 was by Dawkins and 1.5 was by a linebacker.  Now maybe the stats with respect to pressures and hits on Ben will show something different, but this was their defensive line completely kicking the butt of our OL.  The blitzes were just the condiments on top of the main course.

Its possible to say that Ben was fixated on 30 yard patterns, but since he only threw the ball once that far its impossible to say.  There was no pocket (at all), I think, for any of the times he dropped back.
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« Reply #24 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 12:34 »

On a lighter note, DJ Gallo put a comedic spin on the O-line's ineptitude.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=gallo/080922
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vinman3
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« Reply #25 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 12:35 »

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The OL got nuked.  Of the 9 sacks, 6.5 were by defensive lineman.  While the blitz was disruptive, the line completely failed at bocking the people directlyt in front of them.  Of the remaining 2.5 sacks, 1 was by Dawkins and 1.5 was by a linebacker.  Now maybe the stats with respect to pressures and hits on Ben will show something different, but this was their defensive line completely kicking the butt of our OL.  The blitzes were just the condiments on top of the main course.

Its possible to say that Ben was fixated on 30 yard patterns, but since he only threw the ball once that far its impossible to say.  There was no pocket (at all), I think, for any of the times he dropped back.
There were also at least 3 times where Ben would have been sacked and he gained an inch or two falling forward.
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« Reply #26 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 13:02 »

"It was 10-6 in the fourth quarter and the feeling on our sideline was like we were down 28-3," Simmons said. "That isn't right, man ...

"I'm going to bite my tongue. All I'm going to say is they were bringing more people than we could handle. We can block five or six. But when they bring six or seven or eight people, there's nothing we can do."


Ridiculous.  Most of the pressure was by down guys, not 'backers or safeties.  Hell, half the camera shots you could see Simmons and Hartwig standing around digging in their jocks while guys went by untouched.  
 
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« Reply #27 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 13:13 »

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"It was 10-6 in the fourth quarter and the feeling on our sideline was like we were down 28-3," Simmons said. "That isn't right, man ...

"I'm going to bite my tongue. All I'm going to say is they were bringing more people than we could handle. We can block five or six. But when they bring six or seven or eight people, there's nothing we can do."


Ridiculous.  Most of the pressure was by down guys, not 'backers or safeties.  Hell, half the camera shots you could see Simmons and Hartwig standing around digging in their jocks while guys went by untouched.
IMO, that confusion is partly on the players, but a good bit is on Zierlein's shoulders, and even more on BA and Tomlin for not having those quick-action plays ready to counter.  Jimmy Johnson simply out-schemed us.  Proves you can get pressure and sacks without rushing 7-8 guys.

Someone at AOL Fanhouse broke down the sacks...

Rushers..... No. of rushes..... Sacks
3.................... .....4............... . 1
4.................... ... 19............... 2
5.................... ..... 6............... 4
6.................... ... 11............... 2
7.................... .... 4................. 0

Sorry for the formatting.

Anyway, 6 times you go 5 on 5, and you give up a sack on 67% of those?

The 7 rusher blitzes yielded ZIP.


 
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« Reply #28 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 13:39 »

Good stats finny. Shows that the OL was getting beat straight up and in the one on one battles. And really rushing 6 guys shouldn't be that big of a problem, considering you have a TE and  a RB to help. Seems like the Eagles zone blitz scheme rattled the OL, which shouldn't happen, considering they practice against a D that does a lot of the same stuff. It was a complete meltdown. The Perfect Storm of losing individual battles/matchups, idiotic non adjusting playcalling, a QB who holds onto the ball a little to long, and a comprehensive failure of executing the correct blocking scheme for the situation.

My take is

25% fault of the OL- I know that might seem low, but go back to your expectations for the unit in July. You would expect them to stuggle against good talent

15% Ben- I know you don't want to throw an INT Ben, but throw it the fuck away once in a while. When you have time to pump 3 times, you have time to throw it away

60% fault of the coaches- If I can post, along with many others, on an internet blog for fans several days before the game that A) The Eagles will blitz on every down and distance and B) Quick passes, draws, no huddle, and RB screens, would do well , how the fuck can professional coaches at the highest level not figure it out? Was it after the 4th, 5th 6th, or 7th sack that BA might have had misgivings about his gameplan? What game was he watching? Maybe he needs to go up to the booth and take a broader look at the game and get off the sidelines. And Tomlin has to take some responsiblity for not insisting in the second quarter that something change.
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« Reply #29 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 15:07 »

When your QBs get sacked 9 times, there is no way that any offensive lineman should be making excuses.  There is no excuse for it.  Talk about that stuff in the meetings or whatever, but publicly you need to be humble and contrite because you just got your butt blown off the football.
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« Reply #30 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 15:29 »

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"I was surprised," Eagles defensive end Trent Cole said. "They came out passing and I was just like, 'Wow! This is going to be fun.'"
'Nuff said. Arians sucks ass!
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« Reply #31 on: Sep 22, 2008 at 18:08 »

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On a lighter note, DJ Gallo put a comedic spin on the O-line's ineptitude.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=gallo/080922

 The part about the NFL Shop commercial is classic.
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