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Author Topic: Our Offseason....  (Read 1555 times)
Hercules50!
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« Reply #10 on: Sep 24, 2008 at 08:14 »

I agree with the point that our drafting success is overrated. We've had a lot of flat-out busts after round 1.

I, for one, wouldn't be upset if Colbert were replaced.
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LambertsFrontTeeth
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« Reply #11 on: Sep 24, 2008 at 08:34 »

In all fairness, anyone that spends enough time drafting in the NFL will have busts.  Every draft is a crapshoot, with regard to who is available when you are picking, and whether the player picked will perform.  

A 4th or 5th round pick ( on a talented team, mind you)  probably is more likely to fail to make the roster than not.  Which begs the question:  why haven't we tried to dump some of these lower picks in packages to move up in the 2nd or 3rd rounds to get better need players?  

My complaint is less the failures of individual draft picks and more the draft strategies that have been utilized over the past 5 or 6 years. One simply can't continue to ignore the OL and DL in the top 2 rounds and expect that it won't come back to eventually haunt the team.  
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"Dreith said I hit Sipe too hard. I hit him as hard as I could. Brian has a chance to go out of bounds and he decides not to. He knows I'm going to hit him. And I do. History."
- - - Jack Lambert, after referee Ben Dreith ejected him from a game for knocking out Browns QB Brian Sipe.
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« Reply #12 on: Sep 24, 2008 at 10:01 »

I agree w/Lambert on this: the problem with packaging up picks to move to R2-3 is that EVERYONE wants to move there.  You can't scrape enough value to make that move.

IMO, the aspect that is most irksome aren't the sheer number of picks that fail, comprised as it is of predominantly R4-7 floppers, but the R2-3 guys who fail; recently, Zo and Willie Reid.  Offsetting this, somewhat, is the fact that we seem to do exceptionally well with UDFAs (FWP, Kreider; to a lesser extent lately, Stapleton, Russell, and this year Woods).  

It's a bit early to really judge this year's draft class.  Even the 2007 draft will take a little while to really come into focus, although we did jettison McBean and Stephenson.  Baker has moved up from the PS, and Gay seems to be getting more time, though.

2006 looks like the worst of late:  Holmes was clearly the best WR at that top of that draft class, but A. Smith still has issues, Reid is out, Colon still plays at tackle for some reason, and then 5 following are all gone.

2005 looks solid.  Hard to fault the Miller pick, or McFadden, or Kemo, and even though Essex was drafted too high, he's been a solid role player.  Won't piss about Goo and Nua and Herron.

2004 was bad, aside from Ben and Starks.  But fuck, we got Ben.  How often does that happen?

2003, again, sort of 50/50, getting Troy and Ike.  

It seems that if we get 3 guys out of 6-7, we're OK.  While we could do better, I don't think most NFL teams really do much better than that, either.  If we can find a way to package some R4-7 for another R2-3, cool.
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Preacherman0
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« Reply #13 on: Sep 24, 2008 at 10:03 »

Well-said, Lambert.
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aj_law
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« Reply #14 on: Sep 24, 2008 at 13:01 »

Quote
This is why so many people have freaked about the failure to draft offensive lineman in the last two drafts.
I posted this awhile back on ESPN, but it pretty much sums up my feelings on the O-line so I'm pasting here for discussion.  Apologies for duplication.

When they stopped using higher draft picks (i.e. R1, R2) on linemen is pretty much when things started going downhill.  If you look back, they've only done that twice in the last 10 years.  Simmons in '02 (I think) and Smith in '00 (again, I think).  

Since then, it's been a flier on this or that Day Two guy; a pick based on a guy's "potential;" a "dark horse" selection based on whatever report; etc., etc.  I know that with the team's overall success in the last 15 years, they haven't had many high picks, but there's no doubt they've ignored that part of the team in the last half a dozen or so drafts.  Factor in that the last FA OL they brought in (that  was worth anything) in Hartings has retired and well, you can pretty much figure out why that group is struggling.

For awhile there, this team had 3 or 4 top high round selections in their prime on the O-line.  Now, the only ones they''ve got are an aging Smith and an inconsistent guy in Simmons who's had to fight health/injury issues for a good chunk of his career and has never really rebounded to his younger form.

I think next year they need to spend money on a quality FA OL [Jordan Gross], then spend their first 3 draft picks [OL, DL, OL]  to build the quality in the trenches back to where it used to be...on both sides of the ball.
 
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Preacherman0
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« Reply #15 on: Sep 24, 2008 at 13:22 »

I remember, somewhere around 2000, arguing that we didn't need to draft OL very high, because you could take just about anyone and turn him into a decent OL.  I can't even begin to tell you how my opinion has changed.  I just assumed we get guys like Bo Lacy, Nkwenti, Okobi, Essex and make men out of them.  It just doesn't work that way.  OL are now required to be athletes, and smart ones at that.

Guess like Essex are fine--they are what they are.  Decent BACKUP material.  But starters need to be prime picks.  
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aj_law
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« Reply #16 on: Sep 24, 2008 at 14:05 »

Remember when Ben was "asking" for a tall receiving threat?

I wonder which one he'd take today if you gave him the choice of having either a Burress type or one or two quality linemen.  Bet after last week, he'd be begging for the latter.
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otismalibu
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« Reply #17 on: Sep 24, 2008 at 14:08 »

Ben just needs to take a page from Mike Tomczak and start throwing passes from his back.
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jasonic
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« Reply #18 on: Sep 24, 2008 at 14:10 »

speaking of backs....how awesome was that when polamalu tackled that dude with his back??
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