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Author Topic: Smartest thing she's said yet  (Read 2683 times)
vinman3
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« Reply #30 on: Nov 03, 2008 at 10:16 »

No worries LC, I still love you too  love4

My interpretation of the second amendment pretty much continues along the point Finny made.

Ditto that on the second amendment.

I voted Clinton in 1992 (would have voted Perot had he not flaked), voted Perot 1996, Bush in 2000 (after voting Alan Keyes in the primary), I voted Bush in 2004, I voted for the crazy old coot Ron Paul (when McCain had been pretty well clinched it). I always vote for who I feel is the best candidate, even if they are a guaranteed loser. Right now, in this climate, I think Bob Barr is the best candidate for the job, so he will get my write in vote.

IMO, if everyone who thought that the third party candidate was the best choice would actually vote for that candidate, they would have a chance of winning.
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vinman3
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« Reply #31 on: Nov 03, 2008 at 10:17 »

Vinman, I wouldn't call you a crazy right-winger at all, because it sounds like you actually THINK about these things.  My issue with the right--at least here in SC--is that most of them haven't had a thought in about 20 years.  They just say, "I ain't votin' for no Hussein-lover!  If we elect Obama this world is comin' to an end."

Thanks Preach.
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steelerfaninCO
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« Reply #32 on: Nov 03, 2008 at 10:20 »

Quote
I do like his thoughts on education.

My wife, as a teacher, has stated that she will vote for any candidate that will do away with No Child Left Behind as it currently exists.  She doesn't completely disagree with the stated principles or intent, but the fact is that it just doesn't work.  Bush's goal is to have 100% of students passing whatever test they have to pass to be considered "on grade level."  That is almost a statistical impossibility, and the only way to make it happen is to dumb down the test to the point that every kid can pass it just by writing his/her name at the top.




No Child Left Behind is a complete and total disaster. Its a good idea in Utopia, but unrealistic in the real world. Its actually encouraging schools to let underperforming kids drop out. Instead of having these kids drag down the schools average performance scores, they are telling them to drop out. Basically the bottom 3rd is getting left behind. Since the program isn't properly funded, most schools don't have the resources to lift the scores of the bottom scoring students. And since their some of their current funding is dependent on the schools performance, measured through students test scores, the schools don't want, or can afford to average in the low scores. So they tell the kid to drop out. And its happening all over the country at an alarming rate.
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leighclay
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« Reply #33 on: Nov 03, 2008 at 10:54 »

Don't get me wrong, I also applaud Vinman for sticking by his guns (pun intended).
And I don't lay all the blame of the 2000 election at the feet of Nader, but....NH was also lost by a slim margin and would have won the election for Gore. No hanging chad there.
There may be others, I haven't done a full analysis. Work keeps getting in the way.   :rolleyes:

I have never considered voting for a 3rd party candidate.  None of them have every seemed viable enough to me.  Not viable in the sense that I did not think they brought anything different to the table, not in that they couldn't possibly win.  Believe me, I'd vote for one if I thought they offered a better answer than the others.

I see this election as the most important in my lifetime so far.  I originally thought that about the first Clinton campaign, but now realize that I was mostly a one issue voter.  Not a good thing, necessarily.

So, Vin, do you trust Bob Barr?  And if so, why? What makes him more trustworthy?

Again, asking purely for educational purposes.
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Preacherman0
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« Reply #34 on: Nov 03, 2008 at 11:45 »

Quote
No Child Left Behind is a complete and total disaster. Its a good idea in Utopia, but unrealistic in the real world. Its actually encouraging schools to let underperforming kids drop out. Instead of having these kids drag down the schools average performance scores, they are telling them to drop out. Basically the bottom 3rd is getting left behind. Since the program isn't properly funded, most schools don't have the resources to lift the scores of the bottom scoring students. And since their some of their current funding is dependent on the schools performance, measured through students test scores, the schools don't want, or can afford to average in the low scores. So they tell the kid to drop out. And its happening all over the country at an alarming rate.

That's just the tip of the melting iceburg on that issue.  Again, my wife (like most teachers) has no problem with accountability--but, let's make it reasonable accountability.  For example:  Two years ago, she got an ESL student about two months before the date of the big state test.  Kid's parents spoke no English, he knew barely a few words.  In NC (where we lived) he did not have to take the state test because he didn't know English well enough to be expected to have a chance.  Then, three weeks before the test, the ESL teacher calls my wife and says, "Yeah, he qualifies, and has to take the math and the verbal sections."  Now, my wife hasn't even had the kid in class enough to teach him any math because he's w/the ESL group.  Now, she has three weeks to teach a kid who can barely read a sentence enough math/english to get him ready for a stadardized test.  And literally, the bonuses, funding, etc. for the ENTIRE SCHOOL may come down to whether this kid who has live in the US for a few months passes this test.

Somehow, the kid barely passes.  Which means one of two things:

1) My wife is a miracle worker (probably true)

and/or

2) Test wasn't all that tough.

In one of the other little ironies to this brilliant W plan, South Carolina has some of the lowest test scores in the nation.  However, it is also the only state that is giving a test that is judged to be a "worthy" benchmark for student achievement.  What is the state's reward for having a truly challenging test and not dumbing down the material?  Less money, fewer bonuses, worse national reputation. 
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pensodyssey
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« Reply #35 on: Nov 03, 2008 at 17:19 »

Let's also not forget that in order for a candidate to get his or her name on the ballot, their party has to meet certain requirements that entail getting a percentage of the votes in the previous election.   Forget the number, but I do know it's a minimum percentage of all votes cast.  So voting for a third party-- libertarian, green, socialist, etc.-- isn't a wasted vote, it's a step towards maintaining the viability of a party outside the big two, and keeping it out of a nowhereland write-in status.

Votes for a third party are one of the few real ways to maintain alternatives to the republicrats.
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« Reply #36 on: Nov 03, 2008 at 18:25 »

I'd be delighted with a strong third party, but don't see any of the existing thirds to curry much favor with the general public.  (I did vote Nader in 2000, not much enamored of either Bush or Gore, a protest vote.)  That leaves the cult of personality to take the charge, sporadically, in lieu of a compelling party vision.  To wit, within my lifetime:

1992, Perot, 18.90%
1980, John Anderson, 6.61%
1968, George Wallace, 13.53%

While voters may have some sympathy or affinity with aspects of independents' platforms, those parties just aren't taken seriously, in part because of systemic issues (media exposure, funding), in part because of voter resistance, but IMO because the argument is not compelling. 

To me, 2008 presents an election where the candidate I back would have made an interesting independent; a Clinton-McCain-Obama election would likely wind up in the House per the 12th amendment, with McCain winning a plurality of states and hence the presidency.  But an Obama party would likely have been a strong third; a pity in that regard that he did so well.

I've said forever that we need a Thomas Paine to author a tract for some Common Sense party, to which strong candidates disaffected with the bicameral system would be attracted, to represent the disenfranchised moderate majority.  Somewhere between the radical poles, a vast many Americans believe in a sense of balance, where neither ideology holds complete sway.  For me, that is a vision of fiscal conservatism, strong national defense, and a libertarian sense of non-intervention in social values; personal rights and freedoms being paramount; a respect and sense of conservancy of the natural resources; and the idea that while big government is not ideal, we have a duty to ensure that basic needs of all Americans are met very much in accordance with ideas promulgated in the Biblical Gospels.  If that sounds like every ideology into the blender, so be it.  We all pick and choose, although I don't believe there's consensus on which a la carte items we would each choose.  But the recalcitrance of the two parties to deviate from platform, and their insistence on polarization, make me hope in short-term for great things from Obama, and long-term for a party of sensible options.
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vinman3
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« Reply #37 on: Nov 04, 2008 at 06:34 »

So, Vin, do you trust Bob Barr?  And if so, why? What makes him more trustworthy?

Again, asking purely for educational purposes.


I think I do...As much as you can trust a politician. It is a gut feeling really. I wish it was more than that. I do like the fact that he has left the Republican party, which shows he can think for himself and not just walk the party line. Maybe that is it.

I like his stances on many issues. I love the fact that he was very much against the bailout. Quite frankly, I cannot in good conscience vote for ANYONE who voted for that travesty.
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leighclay
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« Reply #38 on: Nov 04, 2008 at 08:31 »

So, Vin, do you trust Bob Barr?  And if so, why? What makes him more trustworthy?

Again, asking purely for educational purposes.


I think I do...As much as you can trust a politician. It is a gut feeling really. I wish it was more than that. I do like the fact that he has left the Republican party, which shows he can think for himself and not just walk the party line. Maybe that is it.

I like his stances on many issues. I love the fact that he was very much against the bailout. Quite frankly, I cannot in good conscience vote for ANYONE who voted for that travesty.

Cool.
Alrighty then, go out and vote, if you haven't already.
My brother & his friends, since they're all off school and work today, were planning to vote then hit the strip club.
Ah, youth...
 Wink
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vinman3
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« Reply #39 on: Nov 04, 2008 at 08:34 »

So, Vin, do you trust Bob Barr?  And if so, why? What makes him more trustworthy?

Again, asking purely for educational purposes.


I think I do...As much as you can trust a politician. It is a gut feeling really. I wish it was more than that. I do like the fact that he has left the Republican party, which shows he can think for himself and not just walk the party line. Maybe that is it.

I like his stances on many issues. I love the fact that he was very much against the bailout. Quite frankly, I cannot in good conscience vote for ANYONE who voted for that travesty.

Cool.
Alrighty then, go out and vote, if you haven't already.
My brother & his friends, since they're all off school and work today, were planning to vote then hit the strip club.
Ah, youth...
 Wink

LOL. Enjoy the day LC, I am sure Barr has as much chance as McCain does at winning today. I will be glad when it is finally over.
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It's a hot night. The mind races. You think about your knife; the only friend who hasn't betrayed you, the only friend who won't be dead by sun up. Sleep tight, mates, in your quilted Chambray nightshirts.
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