Maximum Grilled Steelers Forum
Jul 28, 2014 at 18:01 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home   Forum   Help Calendar Media Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Hate To Say It...  (Read 1892 times)
whitmer_87
Brownstains can suck my Member
****

Karma: 484
Offline Offline

Posts: 847



« Reply #10 on: Dec 29, 2008 at 18:22 »

If Ben can't get a full week of practice in before their first playoff game, they might not even go one and done.

I cringe to think what would happen if opposing defenses have a week to gameplan for Leftwich.  Coming off the bench, yeah, sure, he's the QB equivalent of a "change of pace" RB.  The dude gets rid of it quicker and appears to be more decisive.  But man, I don't want my team's playoff hopes riding on his shoulders.

I agree, Lefty hasn't made a start yet. Meaning no defense has planned for him. I wont say it's easy to be successful off the the bench, but I will say it's easier to play well against a defense that hasn't planned for you then a defense that has. Look at all the guys who have been great off the bench, but could never hack it as a starter: Dave Kreig, Gus Frerotte, Jason Garret, Frank Reich, and even Charlie Batch. All these guys play very well filling in, but never as starters.

Ben is a winner. He's been doing that pretty damn consistently since he's came into the league. That's why we pay him the big bucks. Why bench the guy for playing poorly in two games that didn't even fucking matter anyway? He was playing solid before the last two games, and he's 5-2 in the postseason for fuck sake.

If he's hurt and can't go, then fine. Lefty can hold his own,  but if Ben can go, he's gotta be the guy.
Logged

"The duty of the comedian is to find out where the line is drawn, and cross it deliberately."-George Carlin
steelerfaninCO
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 1270
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,466



« Reply #11 on: Dec 29, 2008 at 19:32 »


If he's hurt and can't go, then fine. Lefty can hold his own,  but if Ben can go, he's gotta be the guy.


 iagree
Logged
Preacherman0
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5808
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,793



WWW
« Reply #12 on: Dec 29, 2008 at 23:30 »

Quote
I cringe to think what would happen if opposing defenses have a week to gameplan for Leftwich.  Coming off the bench, yeah, sure, he's the QB equivalent of a "change of pace" RB.  The dude gets rid of it quicker and appears to be more decisive.  But man, I don't want my team's playoff hopes riding on his shoulders.

The one thing I don't want to see is Ben making the decision about how "ready" he is.  If Cowher had made him sit a few times in 2006, that season may have turned out much different.  I love the fact that Ben is a gamer and wants to play, but for heavens' sake, he was out cold on the field (or so it appeared).  If he needs to sit, then play Gary and keep a lid on it until right before game time.  And if Ben is mucking it up, yank him.

Let's keep in mind that there is a reason BL lost his job in Jax, in Atl, etc.; and there is a reason why he wasn't signed by anyone until we called him up.  I think he's a good guy, good backup, and a great asset to this team, but I'm not ready to hand him the reins for the rest of the season.  Let's not forget that the windup throw and slow feet (yeah, he ran one in Sun...the slowest 8 yards in nfl history) are still there.

And really, I don't believe that we need to throw in the towel on BR at this point.  Come on, people, do you honestly think Gary C would have put up any more points against the Ravens?  Or suddenly given us a win vs. the Titans?  I doubt that.

Ben has gotten his head bashed in all year--what, 48 sacks?--and he's hung in and led us to 12-4.  Now we want to make Byron Leftwich the starter?  What is up with that? 

I don't know what the deal is and why BR and Arians don't seem to click, but I know that I am not in any way prepared to kick Ben to the curb.  I still think he is one of the best in the NFL and can only name a handful of guys that I'd take over him.  BL beat the friggin' Redskins and Browns for half a game, let's not slobber all over him just yet.  And, if I remember correctly, we were leading both of those games when Ben left.
Logged

We have traded Christ for the religion of Christianity.
Joetorious
Brownstains can suck my Member
****

Karma: 1406
Offline Offline

Posts: 733



« Reply #13 on: Dec 30, 2008 at 11:03 »

Just to reiterate, I'm not selling out BR for good; I'm not advocating for trading him/putting him on the FA market. However, with him, it seems like his funks are long-lasting. He has the ability to do complete 180s from season to season. Next year he'll probably be stellar. But this year, he's been pretty much terrible. I don't think any player in the league should play just because he's being paid well.

Here are the Steelers problems: shitty OL leads to no run game and too many sacks. OC that calls shitty plays. QB that holds onto the ball for an eternity on every. single. play. The Steelers cannot address the OL at this point in the season. So, what are the adjustments they could make? Run the hurry-up more often and call virtually only 3-step-drop pass plays to get the ball out of his hands. However, BA and BR refuse to do either. The "big-play" argument is null and void this year. BR holds onto the fucking ball too long and seldom does it result in anything worth creaming pants over. More often it results in a sack, fumble or INT (or all three if possible).

BR and BA know the OL sucks. They both have to make adjustments to account for this. BA could help BR by calling better plays, but ultimately, BR is the guy on the field and the one who has the most influence over how things shake out. Maybe the Steelers should get a taser so that when BR practices, he automatically gets tased when he holds onto the ball longer than 2.5 - 3 seconds.

All that to say this: maybe BL wouldn't do so well if foes game planned for him, but he doesn't do the things that have gotten the Steelers into trouble thus far - take sacks and turn the ball over.

If anyone from the Steelers organization is listening (and I have no doubt that some of you are front office personnel), please insert the 1980s gem "We don't need another hero" next time BR is suiting up. All we need is someone who plays smart.
Logged

Tell 'em...Large Marge sent ya! Bwhahahaha
Big Virgil
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 3768
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,244



« Reply #14 on: Dec 30, 2008 at 11:08 »

I wonder if BR has any more smart-@ss quips for the media about holdiong the ball too long after getting his head smashed yet again?
Logged

Looks like you've been missing a lot of work lately.
I wouldn't say I've been *missing* it, Bob.
otismalibu
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 7051
Online Online

Posts: 10,879



« Reply #15 on: Dec 30, 2008 at 11:29 »

I guess it's a moot point anyway, because BR will only get the hook if he's hurt. I just hope he's sharp in a few weeks, but after a concussion, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's not. Of course, like any athlete, he's going to say he's 100%, even if he's not. We'll see.

We absolutely can't have one or more of those "what the fuck was he thinking" picks that puts us in a first half hole like last year's brief post season.
Logged
jonzr
Asst. VP, Jonzring
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 11361
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,395


Have a cup o' joe.


WWW
« Reply #16 on: Dec 30, 2008 at 11:38 »

We absolutely cannot have that.  I hope he rests through next Sunday and then is cleared to resume preparation for the next enemy, hopefully the Fish.
Logged

"I like David Bowie, he was always my favorite member of Tin Machine."
- Rodney Anonymous

It's a Steeler Nation
whitmer_87
Brownstains can suck my Member
****

Karma: 484
Offline Offline

Posts: 847



« Reply #17 on: Dec 30, 2008 at 13:13 »

You guys remember in SB XL when it was 3rd and forever and Ben held on to the ball entirely too long and even stopped to make sure he was  behind the line, then chucked it for 30 some odd yards to Hines to set up a crucial TD? Did anyone bitch about him holding on to the ball for too long then? How bout earlier in the year against Jax, when he fluttered a 15 yard pass to Hines with 3 guys hanging on to him for a vital third down conversion. Anyone bitch then? Or against Baltimore, when he threw the game winner to Holmes. Anyone bitch? You take the good and you take the bad with Ben. Because we've all seen him when he's good, and that good outweighs the bad by a long shot. We're friggin' 12-4 and the 2 seed in the better conference.

Yes, he needs to be smarter with the football, no doubt about it. But one of the major reasons why he's been so successful is because of his skill to improvise. He's won us many games playing that way. Ben is 51-17(?) as a starter, 5-2 in the post season, and the youngest QB to have won a SB. Why throw him under the bus? Especially for Byron Fuckin' Leftwich. Not sure who pointed it out earlier, but they were right when they said there is a reason the guy lost his job in Jax and Atl. You give a defense a week to a plan for the slow-footed Gary Colemen and he'll look like fucking Tommy Maddox.

Not buying the idea that he will be gun shy or whatever after the concussion either. Dude hit is head on a wind shield and almost died. He's been knocked around more than any other QB since he's came into the league. I hardly think that this last hit is going to be the one that does it. Especially since he has a good two weeks to recover from it.
Logged

"The duty of the comedian is to find out where the line is drawn, and cross it deliberately."-George Carlin
leighclay
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 3979
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,192



« Reply #18 on: Dec 30, 2008 at 13:14 »

All that to say this: maybe BL wouldn't do so well if foes game planned for him, but he doesn't do the things that have gotten the Steelers into trouble thus far - take sacks and turn the ball over.

Ben - 60 quarters played, 46 sacks = .766 sacks per quarter
Gary - 4 quarters played, 3 sacks = .75 sacks per quarter

I'm just sayin'...
Logged

I'm still the one with the boobs.
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12188
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,198



« Reply #19 on: Dec 30, 2008 at 13:39 »

I don't think Ben holding onto the ball too long is as divisive as some fans are making it.  Does he sometimes take a sack we wish he wouldn't?  Sure.  Do we sometimes see him turn chicken shit into chicken salad?  Yup.

IMO, the problem still goes back to the line and the OC play-calling.  You can say "Oh, Starks is playing better than I thought he would," on down the line, left to right, rationalizing away, but the facts remain: Ben is getting clanged at a David Carr-like rate, and our YPC rushing is pretty fucking weak.  There's not a week where I sit back and say, "Hey, Ben really had all the time in the world to get it done for a change."  There is always a breakdown; sometimes it's at the edge, sometimes up the gut, but most often it's all over the damned line.  My general impression is that before, Ben had some time/space to get outside the pocket and make something happen, whereas now you see the pocket collapsing around him and containing him.  Defenders sandwiching him as he looks like a dog paddling down the river, sticking his head up for air, no chance to throw the ball away.  His own linemen thrown back into him.  Edge rushers coming in from both sides.

So maybe DCs are figuring out that they can contain Ben and get the sacks, or force him to throw off-balance, since he can't scramble out for throws.  (He also hasn't run as much this year, if you'll notice, and I think it's because he just hasn't had those lanes to run it, again because he's sandwiched rather than chased.)

Another part of the blame has to be the OC, who cannot design plays to counter the pass-rush, who cannot find a way to get running plays outside of the tackles, who cannot get quick-developing pass plays for intermediate yardage, and who rarely seems to have a designed pressure valve receiver.  Granted, Ben does sometimes loom for the kill shot rather than a short dumper that would save the play (missing a wide open MM for 2 yards on that one INT at Tenn, which would have been an easy first down). 

Point is, you fix the essentials (OL, OC), and Ben's style of play becomes a moot issue. 
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal
| Sitemap
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!