Maximum Grilled Steelers Forum
Oct 24, 2014 at 14:02 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home   Forum   Help Calendar Media Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [3]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Hate To Say It...  (Read 1986 times)
Merman1983
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5205
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,515


Master of the figure-four leglock


« Reply #20 on: Dec 30, 2008 at 13:59 »

I don't think Ben holding onto the ball too long is as divisive as some fans are making it.  Does he sometimes take a sack we wish he wouldn't?  Sure.  Do we sometimes see him turn chicken shit into chicken salad?  Yup.

IMO, the problem still goes back to the line and the OC play-calling.  You can say "Oh, Starks is playing better than I thought he would," on down the line, left to right, rationalizing away, but the facts remain: Ben is getting clanged at a David Carr-like rate, and our YPC rushing is pretty fucking weak.  There's not a week where I sit back and say, "Hey, Ben really had all the time in the world to get it done for a change."  There is always a breakdown; sometimes it's at the edge, sometimes up the gut, but most often it's all over the damned line.  My general impression is that before, Ben had some time/space to get outside the pocket and make something happen, whereas now you see the pocket collapsing around him and containing him.  Defenders sandwiching him as he looks like a dog paddling down the river, sticking his head up for air, no chance to throw the ball away.  His own linemen thrown back into him.  Edge rushers coming in from both sides.

So maybe DCs are figuring out that they can contain Ben and get the sacks, or force him to throw off-balance, since he can't scramble out for throws.  (He also hasn't run as much this year, if you'll notice, and I think it's because he just hasn't had those lanes to run it, again because he's sandwiched rather than chased.)

Another part of the blame has to be the OC, who cannot design plays to counter the pass-rush, who cannot find a way to get running plays outside of the tackles, who cannot get quick-developing pass plays for intermediate yardage, and who rarely seems to have a designed pressure valve receiver.  Granted, Ben does sometimes loom for the kill shot rather than a short dumper that would save the play (missing a wide open MM for 2 yards on that one INT at Tenn, which would have been an easy first down). 

Point is, you fix the essentials (OL, OC), and Ben's style of play becomes a moot issue. 

Great post. Leftwich ain't the cure for this offense. Put him behind this line for 30+ pass plays against a playoff caliber defense and his sack total will be at least equal to if not greater than Ben's.

And they can't runblock against anyone not wearing orange jerseys.

Logged
jonzr
Asst. VP, Jonzring
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 11363
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,590


Have a cup o' joe.


WWW
« Reply #21 on: Dec 30, 2008 at 14:04 »

And they can't runblock against anyone not wearing orange jerseys.


That is the sad truth.   cussing
Logged

"I like David Bowie, he was always my favorite member of Tin Machine."
- Rodney Anonymous

It's a Steeler Nation
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12194
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,323



« Reply #22 on: Dec 30, 2008 at 14:14 »

Don't get me wrong, I like Leftwich a lot, and think he'd do fine for us.  Ben's just the better long-term option.  Kinda like in FF when you have that impulse to sit an underperforming key player and then he comes back and kills for you the next week...  IMO, a lot of teams were being overly cautious in not signing Lefty (Bears, Lions, Vikes, to name a few).  He has a renowned fastball, funky windup notwithstanding.  He can read defenses and deliver to a spot.  But part of what we're seeing is defenses caught off guard.  Call it the Maddox Effect... you wonder if Lefty were handed the starting job, how long would it be until he looked like Ben, with less scrambling and a different throwing motion?  Once you're taking snaps for all four quarters, it's sort of a different game.
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
Preacherman0
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5808
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,824



WWW
« Reply #23 on: Dec 30, 2008 at 20:39 »

Great posts, Finny.  I'm not saying that Ben isn't part of the problem.  But benching him (unless he's hurt) isn't the solution.
Logged

We have traded Christ for the religion of Christianity.
msdmnr2002
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 2838
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,631



WWW
« Reply #24 on: Jan 02, 2009 at 09:41 »

If Ben's close to right,he has to play.  However, he tends to not play well the first game back from an injury.  Whether it's because he rushes back before he's ready, I don't know.  I would be extremely surprised if he doesn't play, but I'm not sure he'll play particularly well.  I like BFL, but over 4 quarters I think the pass rush would get to him, especially if we can't establish the running game.

Defense is going to have to step up big - again.
Logged
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12194
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,323



« Reply #25 on: Jan 02, 2009 at 11:12 »

If Ben's close to right,he has to play.  However, he tends to not play well the first game back from an injury.  Whether it's because he rushes back before he's ready, I don't know.  I would be extremely surprised if he doesn't play, but I'm not sure he'll play particularly well.  I like BFL, but over 4 quarters I think the pass rush would get to him, especially if we can't establish the running game.

Defense is going to have to step up big - again.

I think that's about right.  But...  I'm hoping the bye does give him some time to heal up various dings, and that a full week of practice will allow him to get into the rhythm. 

If BA weren't such an obvious cock, he could insert a bunch of plays that would help Ben out, too.  Like, uh, getting Moore into the passing game?  Running plays that don't involve a neon sign blaring "DELAYED DRAW, PLEASE TACKLE FOR A LOSS."  Etc.
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
otismalibu
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 7054
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,908



« Reply #26 on: Jan 02, 2009 at 11:25 »

Quote
Like, uh, getting Moore into the passing game?

No shit!

Could we really have too many dump off passes to MM? He always seems to make something out of it.

Lefty doesn't seem to have much for touch on these dump offs. He just likes the bullets.

I don't think anyone would suggest that Lefty should start. But Tomlin may want to consider putting him in, if BR shits the bed. Hopefully it's not an issue and Ben has a solid game.

Logged
leighclay
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 3979
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,194



« Reply #27 on: Jan 02, 2009 at 12:10 »

Quote
Like, uh, getting Moore into the passing game?
I don't think anyone would suggest that Lefty should start. But Tomlin may want to consider putting him in, if BR shits the bed. Hopefully it's not an issue and Ben has a solid game.

I'm hoping that Ben has that solid game.  More than solid, I hope he returns to Jan. 2006 form.  I loved that Ben.  Didn't like the way that guy didn't show up in the SB, but hopefully that was just first time nerves.

And not doubt about MoMo.  Why that man isn't involved significantly more in every aspect is beyond me.  I love FWP, but MoMo gives us an added dimension when he's there.
Logged

I'm still the one with the boobs.
Pages: 1 2 [3]  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal
| Sitemap
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!