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Author Topic: Pens not going for trades  (Read 929 times)
PghSteel-43
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« on: Jan 05, 2009 at 09:36 »

Penguins not going for trades
Monday, January 05, 2009
By Shelly Anderson, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Penguins fans, Ray Shero hears you.

The general manager understands that with the team mired in a slump, there are calls for change.

Center Sidney Crosby needs a winger more capable of capitalizing on his playmaking. The offense needs an overall boost. The locker room could use more of a veteran presence. A glut of defensemen could be thinned to improve the team.

Yeah, and Santa would like a few palm trees and some sand at the North Pole for his post-Christmas recuperation.

"I would not want to make a trade right now that I wouldn't have made the first 20 games. To do something because we're losing some games isn't what I'm looking at," Shero said yesterday from Ottawa, where he has been watching a wave of potential future NHL stars at the International Ice Hockey Federation World Junior Championships.

He wouldn't rule out a deal "if there's a chance to make the team better," but pointed out that the mid-November trade in which the Penguins swapped defensemen with Dallas, getting Philippe Boucher for Darryl Sydor, was "a lateral move" in a season of few consequential NHL trades so far.

"There's not a lot of movement right now," Shero said, "so you stick with it a little bit and not do something you wouldn't do when things are going well."

Things are decidedly not going well. The Penguins have lost four games in a row, five consecutive games at home, most recently a 6-1 rout Saturday by Florida at Mellon Arena. Scoring and power-play prowess have evaporated. Goaltending has been spotty.

At the time of the Boucher trade -- made in large part at the request of Sydor, who was unhappy with his playing time -- the Penguins were 11-4-2. Going into tonight's game against the Rangers in New York, they are 19-16-4, which through yesterday had them fourth in the Atlantic Division, ninth and below the playoff line in the Eastern Conference and 16th -- or in the bottom half -- in the NHL with 42 points.

The halfway point of the season arrives after a home game tomorrow against Atlanta.

Players know that losing puts pressure on management, but the Penguins are trying not to listen to outcry for trades.

"That's nothing that anybody in this [locker] room can do anything about it, but play," winger Matt Cooke said. "If you're worried about [trades], no wonder we're losing."

Center and captain Sidney Crosby wants to prove that the current roster -- still heavy with players who went to the Stanley Cup final last spring despite several offseason changes -- can turn things around, but he realizes Shero is watching closely.

"We're not making it easy, that's for sure," Crosby said. "We're not making it easy on ourselves. We've got to help each other. That's the bottom line. When things are tough, no one's going to get you out of it but the guys in this [locker] room. That's the way things work.

"We've got to dig ourselves out of it."

Shero, in his third season, believes they can and will.

"It's easy to get frustrated when you work hard and it doesn't happen," he said. "We've just got to stay with it.

"My first couple years, we've gone through these stretches. I believe this current group is going to help us get back on track."

Shero sees the same problems everyone else does, including goaltending and the power play -- "We could have five or seven more points for sure if our power play was going better," he said -- and he shares the opinion of many that there is a chemistry short-circuit, although he doesn't see that as irreparable.

"I don't think the chemistry's been there the past 20 games," he said. "I think that has to do with a lot of guys out of the lineup [due to injury] and guys up from Wilkes-Barre [of the American Hockey League].

"Chemistry's a funny thing. When you're losing games, the calls for chemistry are there. It's the same thing as last year."

Shero has backed the idea of letting the team's young core of players grow together in good times and bad, expressing confidence that the lineup as it stands has the character and talent to win.

Besides, he said, if the general manager of a struggling team goes looking for a trade, he is likely to encounter colleagues who think they smell desperation and won't be offering top return value, making it all the more difficult to swing something.

That's apparently fine with the players.

"I don't think anybody wants to change anything [in terms of personnel]," center Jordan Staal said. "We want to get back on a winning streak and let Ray worry about that other stuff."

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/09005/939683-61.stm
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PghSteel-43
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« Reply #1 on: Jan 05, 2009 at 09:38 »

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To do something because we're losing some games isn't what I'm looking at


Some games?  We have looked like shit for a little over a month and counting now.

Quote
expressing confidence that the lineup as it stands has the character and talent to win.
 

Could have fooled me. I'm not seeing the "character" and I'm definately not seeing the "talent" in order for this team to compete at a high level.

Eitherway, if things get bad enough for this team (as if it isn't already), I think Shero pulls off a trade. I'm not exacty sure how much more pathetic this team can become after losing to the Panthers 6-1 at home, but I recall similar remarks made like the one's stated in the above PPG article directly before we pulled off the Marian Hossa trade.  So that gives me some hope.

Or.....

We can continue to pretend that this team does have the talent, heart, grit and determination while dropping games to NHL juggernauts such as Florida and Tampa Bay?
« Last Edit: Jan 05, 2009 at 09:41 by PghSteel-43 » Logged
PghSteel-43
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« Reply #2 on: Jan 05, 2009 at 09:55 »

Between the talk of people wanting Therrien fired and now this, it's actually embarrassing to know that these people actually live in the Pittsburgh area...

Quote
Q: Should the Penguins trade Sidney Crosby while they can still get top value for him? It is obvious that his skills are diminishing and his turnovers have cost us many games. This team needs a leader with some grit!

Donny Roy, McKeesport

MOLINARI:
Absolutely. Even though Crosby has been pretty ordinary for most of the first half -- no doubt leading teams to conclude that, at age 21, his best years are far, far behind him -- you have to believe Ray Shero still might be able to steal a late-round draft choice for him from some club. Well, a conditional one, anyway. If he acts quickly, that is.
 

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/09005/939608-125.stm
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Merman1983
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« Reply #3 on: Jan 05, 2009 at 11:51 »

It is obvious that his skills are diminishing and his turnovers have cost us many games. This team needs a leader with some grit!
 

Wow. If that's not the stupidest thing I've ever read. You mean all the turnovers bouncing off washed up player's and career third liners sticks? You mean turnovers from trying to turn shit into gold? And, um, you're not going to find a player, let alone a superstar, with more grit than Sid. Get off the bandwagon dude.

In re: to the first article posted, I really think the Pens will make some noise at or before the deadline. No one is going to tip their hand to the media on what they are looking to do at this point. All these rumors leading up to deadlines in any sport end up being just rumors anyway.

I really hope any deal for a young wing with upside who we control for 3-5 years, not another Hossa rental.
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vinman3
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« Reply #4 on: Jan 05, 2009 at 11:59 »

TIRADE SYDNEY KROSBY!!!!!!111 KIDS A BUM,AL HE DUS IS SCOR,CLERLY HE IS NTO TEH CUMPLET PALYER WE WUR TULD HE WULD BE!!!!!!11 NAD HE HAS A CHIKS NAEM,WAHTS UP WIT A NMAE LEIK SYDNEY NEWAYS?Huh??/// DEM CHEEP AZZ RONIES SHOOD PONY UP DA BUKS FRO A QALITY PALYER LIEK ELEXANDR BUSHITNIK!!!!11 NWO THER IS A PALYA SON!!!!!!111 TIRADE SYDNEY KROSBY LEIK YESTURDAY!!!!!!111
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Captain Chaos
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« Reply #5 on: Jan 06, 2009 at 08:36 »

It is obvious that his skills are diminishing and his turnovers have cost us many games. This team needs a leader with some grit!
 

Wow. If that's not the stupidest thing I've ever read. You mean all the turnovers bouncing off washed up player's and career third liners sticks? You mean turnovers from trying to turn shit into gold? And, um, you're not going to find a player, let alone a superstar, with more grit than Sid. Get off the bandwagon dude.

In re: to the first article posted, I really think the Pens will make some noise at or before the deadline. No one is going to tip their hand to the media on what they are looking to do at this point. All these rumors leading up to deadlines in any sport end up being just rumors anyway.

I really hope any deal for a young wing with upside who we control for 3-5 years, not another Hossa rental.

I'm not quite sure we have the luxury to wait until the trade deadline at this point. We're falling fast in the standings so something has gotta give and soon. Be it a prolonged winning streak (not likely with the current make-up of this team), a trade (one singular deal may not be enough) or purging the coaching staff (you can't fire the players). Management has got to be proactive and can't just sit around hoping that the slump ends.
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PghSteel-43
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« Reply #6 on: Jan 06, 2009 at 11:10 »

In re: to the first article posted, I really think the Pens will make some noise at or before the deadline. No one is going to tip their hand to the media on what they are looking to do at this point. All these rumors leading up to deadlines in any sport end up being just rumors anyway.

I really hope any deal for a young wing with upside who we control for 3-5 years, not another Hossa rental.

If they want to compete this season, they need to make a move and make it fast. 

Some are blaming Therrien and want him fired.  The same guy they were praising around this time last season.  I'm not exactly sure what some are expecting the guy to do at this point when it comes to this teams lack of passion and grit.  He has called the team out, he has called certain players out, he has switched up the lines time and time again, he has sent players down to Scranton and he has sent players down to the fourth line in an attempt to shake things up.  It's not Therrien's job to get grown adults to play with passion and grit.  If you can't bring that on your own, you shouldn't be on this team or in the NHL in general.

Then there is the lack of talent.  It's not easy to put together two solid scoring lines when you have wingers who are not capable of finishing.  Therrien can switch up those lines until he's blue in the face, he's still dealing with third and fourth line wingers.  Between a tough schedule, injuries, shaky goaltending, lack of overall talent and players who are here simply for a paycheck, I can't blame the guy for this teams woe's.  Getting Therrien the talent is Shero's job.

Eitherway, nine times out of ten a coaching change sends a team even further down the ladder.  A coaching change doesn't automatically make you better.  What has Tampa Bay done since dumping Melose?  They are one point up on the southeast division's last place Atlanta Thrashers.  They are currently tied with Ottawa at third with the least amount of points in the league.  Only the Islanders and Thrashers are behind them in total points.

If the Penguins want to change the way things are looking, make a trade or two.  Or wait it out, call this season a loss and look to free agency for next season.  Eitherway, this current group is not going to get it done and changes have to be made between now and next October.  Shero has to make up for his horrible signings during this past offseason or he's going to start taking some heat and rightfully so in my opinion.  I'm not suggesting he should be fired at all, but the heat will be on. 

« Last Edit: Jan 06, 2009 at 11:11 by PghSteel-43 » Logged
PghSteel-43
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« Reply #7 on: Jan 07, 2009 at 15:08 »

Thank you Joe Starkey.......

Therrien's not the Penguins' problem
By Joe Starkey, TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Wednesday, January 7, 2009

It wasn't long ago that Michel Therrien seemed a lock to become the longest-tenured coach in Penguins history.

All he had to do was make it to game 62 to surpass Ed Johnston's mark of 276 consecutive games behind the Penguins' bench.

Now, who knows?

You lose at home to Tampa Bay, Toronto and Florida by a combined score of 15-4 and fall out of playoff position at midseason, a year after going to the Stanley Cup final, and you better start wearing a flame-retardant suit to work.

This is especially true in the NHL, where coaches drop like pucks.

Questions about Therrien's job security have arisen for good reason and won't go away just because the Penguins beat the sad-sack Atlanta Thrashers on Tuesday.

Just know this: The team's problems are more about player performance and player personnel than coaching.

Therrien's not blameless, mind you.

But he shouldn't be made the scapegoat.

Therrien didn't sign Miroslav Satan and Mark Eaton to contracts totaling $5.5 million this season. General manager Ray Shero did.

Therrien doesn't have one of the worst save percentages in the NHL. Marc-Andre Fleury, the team's $35 million goaltender, does.

Therrien didn't knock Sergei Gonchar out of the lineup for six months. David Koci did.

Those factors and plenty more have contributed to the Penguins' slide.

Marian Hossa's decision to bolt was a crushing blow. Ryan Malone's apparent unwillingness to take a discount to stay was another -- not that anyone could blame him for wanting to hit the jackpot.

Ryan Whitney's foot surgery, combined with Gonchar's injury, took away two elite offensive defensemen.

Remember, Whitney finished sixth among defensemen in scoring two years ago and had 40 points on an injured foot last season. Once he gets his own power play, he'll be a serious threat to lead all NHL defensemen in points.

Injuries to Tyler Kennedy, Mike Zigomanis, Hal Gill, Fleury and others were setbacks.

And then there is this astounding statistic: Star forwards Evgeni Malkin and Sidney Crosby had gone 23 and 24 games, respectively, without a power-play goal going into last night's game before Crosby tipped a Malkin shot home against the NHL's worst penalty kill.

How is that possible?

Part of the problem has to be the way the players have been deployed, particularly keeping Malkin at the point for so long. Malkin asked to play the point in training camp. That doesn't mean he had to stay there when things began to sour.

Malkin should work the right half-boards, as he did when Crosby was injured last season. Crosby should play down low. Both need to score a power-play goal more than once per Troy Polamalu haircut, no matter where they are positioned.

Also curious was Therrien's decision to scratch defenseman Alex Goligoski the past two games. And Petr Sykora, who snapped the team's 0 for 33 power-play slide last night, needs to be a regular on the top power play.

But even if the coaching hasn't been perfect, better coaching is not what's needed most.

The Penguins need better players<And if Satan doesn't register a pulse sometime soon, maybe it's time to send a message and cut ties with him.

Despite some obvious deficiencies, this team is good enough to win way more than it loses.

These players are good enough to win.

This coach, for sure, is good enough to win.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_605992.html
« Last Edit: Jan 07, 2009 at 15:12 by PghSteel-43 » Logged
whitmer_87
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« Reply #8 on: Jan 08, 2009 at 11:36 »

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And if Satan doesn't register a pulse sometime soon, maybe it's time to send a message and cut ties with him.

Thank you.

Nice, Starkey is spot on with this one.
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PghSteel-43
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« Reply #9 on: Jan 11, 2009 at 00:59 »

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And if Satan doesn't register a pulse sometime soon, maybe it's time to send a message and cut ties with him.

Thank you.

Nice, Starkey is spot on with this one.
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