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Author Topic: Can we package a deal to move up?  (Read 1407 times)
Preacherman0
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« on: Jan 07, 2009 at 12:13 »

Thinking this morning about the sorry state of our offensive line.  Is it possible that we can package up a player w/our poorly-positioned #1 pick to move up and get Oher, or some other olineman who can help us?

Our #1 and FWP:  I love FWP, but we just need linemen so badly that we might have to let him go to get a good one.  Problem is, I'm not sure how many teams feel that he can help them, so that might not be enough.

Our #1 and SH:  We won't re-up Homes, IMO, so why not get something for him?

Those are just a couple of ideas.  I'm just wondering if there is any way that we can move up to get line help without sacrificing a ton of picks.
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msdmnr2002
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« Reply #1 on: Jan 07, 2009 at 12:29 »

This year and next year's #1?  Never happen in a million years, but I think it would be worth it, since it's likely the pick will be later in the first round in '10 also. 

I wouldn't be too concerned about packaging a bundle of picks from this year to move up.  Based on our post-Round 1 success rate over the last 10 years, it's probably worth it.  Worked well to get TP.

After addressing LB, RB lately, we're young and solid in the secondary, WR isn't great but it will do, QB is set, there's really no other positions to address in the draft other than OL and DL.  Would have no problem with bundling our picks and ending up with 2 OL, 2 DL and that's it.

What will the FA market look like?  Must make a good signing there in addition to draft. 
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Merman1983
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« Reply #2 on: Jan 07, 2009 at 12:35 »

I like your idea of trading the #1 and a player to move up. Wouldn't trade multiple picks to move up because this team is going to need to take multiple players at positions of need (OT,G,DL) because of the likelyhood of the picks busting. I'm all for trading WP and our #1 if it mean't landing a blue chip OT. This team could be successful with the trio of Mendenhall, MM, and Russell.

Even though I've soured on him, I can't see us trading Holmes. That trade leaves this team dangerously thin at WR. I hope to be competitive next year too while rebuilding the O and D lines, can't see that happening when an injury would mean Washington and Sweed would be 1 and 2, with Dallas Baker or a FA as # 3.

That is unless of course the FO sees Sweed making the typical second year WR jump. They'd know better than I would I guess.

If we can't move up, how about moving down? Picking up an extra 2nd and 3rd along the way somehow? Assuming almost all of our picks went Oline and Dline, it would give us an extra chance to land some 2nd and 3rd round prospects. There have been some very productive lineman to come out of these rounds.

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aj_law
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« Reply #3 on: Jan 07, 2009 at 12:45 »

Thinking this morning about the sorry state of our offensive line.  Is it possible that we can package up a player w/our poorly-positioned #1 pick to move up and get Oher, or some other olineman who can help us?

Oh, Holy Jesus, that would be sweet.

Our #1 and FWP:  I love FWP, but we just need linemen so badly that we might have to let him go to get a good one.  Problem is, I'm not sure how many teams feel that he can help them, so that might not be enough.

I had mentioned something to the effect of trading him away for a stud lineman earlier this year, but was really due to the depth behind him.  I still think that Willie (along with #7) has been playing at less than full strength this year.  Give him the offseason to get completely healthy and I think you'll see a RB closer to what you saw before he got injured this year.

Our #1 and SH:  We won't re-up Homes, IMO, so why not get something for him?

As much as his lack of improvement and inconsistency has bothered me this year, I'm not ready to throw out the baby with the bathwater just yet.  I think you let him play out this year and next and hope that a light goes off somewhere along the way.  I'm willing to roll the dice and see if he matures and improves next year.  If so, then they look to extend.  If not, BC'nya.  Honestly, with the depth behind him and Ward's age, I don't think they have any other option.

I think they should do whatever they can to get Oher in B&G.  I watched him against TT in their bowl game and I was very impressed.  He handled speed moves, as well as bull rush moves, extremely well.  I read somewhere that his stock might've slipped lately (mid R1 - 13-21...not sure why) and if that's the case, they definitely need to move up and get it done.  Really, anything outside of top 10...do it.
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« Reply #4 on: Jan 07, 2009 at 13:23 »

Given Colbert's track record, I'd say there's about zero chance of these scenarios happening.  No player trades; and no trades into the Oher-zone.

We could move up, say, 8-10 spots, maybe, but I doubt it.  I really think we can get some good talent by sitting tight.  I'm sure we'll all be talking draft in a few weeks, but we could go something like Robinson (OG, Okla.) at the end of R1 (replace Kemo); maybe get a guy like Kropog R2 to groom at LT (though he might need a year, so a FA signing would be necessary); then a guy like Ron Brace (DT, BC) in R3 to groom at NT.

Lots of possibilities, but I don't think we'll see a player trade.
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Merman1983
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« Reply #5 on: Jan 08, 2009 at 09:08 »

Given Colbert's track record, I'd say there's about zero chance of these scenarios happening.  No player trades; and no trades into the Oher-zone.



Typically I'd agree with you, but before trading up for Troy, wasn't trading up for the Steelers basically unheard of? Our D-back situation was in the shit house and they traded up for who the felt was the best DB in the draft. Subsequently, after 2 straight years of losing WRs, they traded up a few spots for Holmes. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

I think the Oline situation this year is worse than either of those 2 situations. And we're about a year and a half from the Dline situation getting ugly. Wouldn't shock me if they made a few typically uncharacteristic moves this offseason to improve both.
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aj_law
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« Reply #6 on: Jan 08, 2009 at 09:16 »

Maybe a FA addition to the DL?

Jonathan Babineau is a UFA, I believe and may not be to 'spensive.  Little on the small~ish side to play DT in a 3-4, but about the right size to play DE.

Just throwin' a name out there.
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Merman1983
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« Reply #7 on: Jan 08, 2009 at 09:32 »

Maybe a FA addition to the DL?

Jonathan Babineau is a UFA, I believe and may not be to 'spensive.  Little on the small~ish side to play DT in a 3-4, but about the right size to play DE.

Just throwin' a name out there.

If he's a guy they feel can bulk up to play in the 3-4, I'm all for it. Worked out well for Keisel. I'd be all for bringing in a younger version of Keisel if the price was right.

I do think NT is a huge concern in the next year or 2 (even if Snack further deteriorates Hoke can handle the starting spot at least next year). I think that's going to have to be addressed in the draft where we can get a starter who is not only cheaper, but has alot less wear and tear than any FA NT would. Those guys really get overpaid on the FA market despite how long they've played. Wouldn't surprise me to see Snack get a pretty hefty contract after he's done here.
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aj_law
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« Reply #8 on: Jan 08, 2009 at 11:52 »

Maybe a FA addition to the DL?

Jonathan Babineaux is a UFA, I believe and may not be to 'spensive.  Little on the small~ish side to play DT in a 3-4, but about the right size to play DE.

Just throwin' a name out there.

If he's a guy they feel can bulk up to play in the 3-4, I'm all for it. Worked out well for Keisel. I'd be all for bringing in a younger version of Keisel if the price was right.

Babineaux is around #285, #290.  Perfect 3-4 DE size, IMO.  Big, yet pretty mobile.

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« Reply #9 on: Jan 08, 2009 at 12:14 »

Rumor is that RT Vernon Carey won't be retained by Miami.  IMO, he'd be a guy to get on the cheap to move Colon inside. 
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Preacherman0
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« Reply #10 on: Jan 10, 2009 at 11:41 »

Quote
Rumor is that RT Vernon Carey won't be retained by Miami.  IMO, he'd be a guy to get on the cheap to move Colon inside. 

Seeing Colon move inside is my dream scenario.  The guy has been playing out of position for two years, and has played decently enough (not good, but adeqate considering the circumstances) to make me believe he could be an awesome guard.  I am more than happy with Stapleton, so move him to left; let Kemo go; Hartwig is adequate; and Starks can is adequate until a LT can develop. 

I don't think Starks is going anywhere because he hasn't played nearly well enough to demand serious money.  If we can get a couple of draft picks/FA this year, a couple next year, we might be able to put together a Steeler-type line again.

Oher is the guy I want, and I hope we'll sell the farm to get him.

BTW, every time I see Keydrick Vincent line up for the Panthers, it makes me want to puke.  To think, we let him go in favor of Simmons...absolutely assinine move.  Take the proven commodity, which Vincent certainly was.
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DCSteelers
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« Reply #11 on: Jan 12, 2009 at 13:35 »

Given Colbert's track record, I'd say there's about zero chance of these scenarios happening.  No player trades; and no trades into the Oher-zone.



Typically I'd agree with you, but before trading up for Troy, wasn't trading up for the Steelers basically unheard of? Our D-back situation was in the shit house and they traded up for who the felt was the best DB in the draft. Subsequently, after 2 straight years of losing WRs, they traded up a few spots for Holmes. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

I think the Oline situation this year is worse than either of those 2 situations. And we're about a year and a half from the Dline situation getting ugly. Wouldn't shock me if they made a few typically uncharacteristic moves this offseason to improve both.

Hard to believe that the 2002 starters  were Chad Scott, DeWayne Washington, Brent Alexander, Lee Flowers (Hank Poteat and Townsend in the nickle)... 

Amazing how the secondary has improved.  I rewatched that Cleveland playoff game and it was just pathetic how that unit was torched - like they were standing still.
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Manimal
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« Reply #12 on: Jan 16, 2009 at 14:08 »

My thoughts on the draft have changed a lot over recent weeks.

Seeing how dominant our defense is, I would love to see us continue to infuse it with talent. The only obvious weakness on our defense right now is that it's a little bit old and, up front, a little bit thin.

Since the end of the first round won't see any OT still on the board worthy of the selection, I would not be too averse to us picking a NT or DE with that first pick. Maybe in the 2nd we pick a quality C or G, since, again, there will be better interior guys there than OTs.

Our offensive line has had some miserable days to be sure but I'm starting to buy the hype that these guys aren't THAT bad and really needed time to get in sync with each other. That is not to say we don't need to add more talent to the OL. We do. But I think that, given our draft position, we may have to make modest investments in this area, like signing a Hartwig-level OT in free agency, moving Colon to G, and re-signing Max Starks.

Then we could go:
1.) NT or DE (Our defensive line needs some youth or it will be the unit that puts the defense in a dive for a year or two if we don't maintain it)
2.) G or C (Wouldn't mind seeing us get a little bigger at C as NTs in the NFL are getting friggin' huge and our 3rd/4th-and-1 play stinks)
3. ) CB or WR (I think we may need a replacement for McFadden and/or Townsend so a corner here wouldn't be bad; and while we haven't had luck picking WRs lately -- thinking of Reid and Sweed, who isn't a bust yet but isn't looking like he's not either -- we need to keep the pipeline fed).
4.) FB - how about a FB who can block and catch and make some yards with the ball? We've tried to do this with Carey Davis. It's time to bring in some competition for him.
5.) OT - Looking for a diamond in the rough here.
6.) DE or NT - Another big ugly trench guy.
7.) LB - Best available specialt teams guy on the board.

I don't have any names in mind for the above but these are my general hopes for the draft position-wise.
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LambertsFrontTeeth
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« Reply #13 on: Jan 20, 2009 at 14:55 »

We should have at least another 3rd round pick (comp for Faneca).  I think DL/OL/DB in the 1st, DL/OL 2nd, DL/OL/DB with the 2 third-rounders. Two OL in the first 4 picks and either 2 DL or a DL and a safety (preferably that doubles as a return guy!). I don't care what the FO picks in what round, as long as the value is good at the needed position.

Of course, this goes out the window if we package a couple picks to move up and get the best DL/OL on the board midway 1st.
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