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Author Topic: Projected 19 million in '09 cap room  (Read 2402 times)
steelerfaninCO
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« on: Feb 03, 2009 at 13:13 »

Ok, in keeping with Tomlin's tone, last year is over. It looks like the Steelers will be 19 million under the cap for '09, assumming no major restructures or cuts. The Ratshits are also 19 mil under. It seems like that is more than in recent years, but somehow I doubt there will be any major FA singings.

But it seems like they have a good chance to keep the guys they want. McFadden probably being on the top of the list. Both Batch and BL are FA's, so they are going to have to sign one of them. BL has a chance to actually start for someone else, so its more likely Batch will be back and for a homwtown discount I'm sure. If both are available, sorry Charlie, I'd rather have BL as the #2 at this point.

Obviously something has to be done with Starks. Either he walks, or signs a longterm deal. No way do they transistion him again for 7 mil. Maybe Smith at this point can be resinged for cheap. Not sure that would be a good idea anyway with that guys back, but who in the league is going to give him $$$ at this point in his career? 2 starters, Kemo and Starks are UFA'a, and 1 starter is a RFA, Colon. The FO is going to have to figure some shit out.

I wonder if Nate getsa any interest after a lack luster playoffs.  I think he can be resigned on the cheap at this point. SH is going to want money as well now that he is the SB MVP.

On defense, McFadden is the guy. Would be really nice to keep him around. I would also think about locking up Clark for a couple more years. He is an underated guy IMO, and probably isn't going to command a lot of money.

So if your Colbert, how do you do spend your money? What FA's do you take a look at?
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« Reply #1 on: Feb 03, 2009 at 13:22 »

I think you have to lock up Kemo, McFadden, and Nate. From there, they need to sure up the OL. SING a LT (maybe Starks) and a RG. Draft OL in one of the first two rounds also (if not both). I would make a push to SIGN Lefty too. The price may be right, you never know. Have I spent $19 million yet?  headbang
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« Reply #2 on: Feb 03, 2009 at 14:10 »

I think you'll see Larry Foote a victim of the cap... and Hines restructured in the form of a bonus payout and two or three year extension.  That could potential save anywhere in another 5-10 million.

I suppose it's possible that Foote can be restructured and extended with backup salary, but he may want to try and find a starting role with another team.

There's a potential for alot of cap cuts this year due to many players being in the final year of their contract.  I don't think so however, with the exception of Foote.  The other surprise could be Casey Hampton, but I doubt it.  I think he has at lease a couple productive years left and very well could be extended with a back-loaded deal.

We presume that the Steelers will be willing to re-sign players as they have the last 5 years or so, but we have no idea how the ownership restructure affects the cash flow of the team.
« Last Edit: Feb 03, 2009 at 14:11 by DCSteelers » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: Feb 03, 2009 at 14:36 »

I think Foote and Snacks might be willing to take that hometown discount.  If you ask me I would rather be on a winning team that has a chance for another SB next year then sitting home after a 3-13 season, but have my money. 

Brinker
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« Reply #4 on: Feb 03, 2009 at 14:42 »

Ah, also, who knows what kind of LTBE incentives will count against the 09 cap w/ the SB victory.
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« Reply #5 on: Feb 03, 2009 at 14:43 »

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I think Foote and Snacks might be willing to take that hometown discount.

Snacks MIGHT be able to get paid somewhere else.  I don't think Foote is going to get a job anywhere else in the league.  Heck, he might not be able to keep the one he has here.
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« Reply #6 on: Feb 03, 2009 at 14:57 »

Depending on where you get your info, I've seen Pittsburgh anywhere from 17 million under to 25 million under.  To make it easier, let's just say that they'll be around 20 million under; especially after you factor in the cap increase.

Looking very quickly at these upcoming deals:

2009 RFAs
Colon
Arnie Harrison
Anthony Madison
McHugh
Anthony Smith

I think Colon, Madison and Smith get tendered.  I have no guess as to what level, ATM.

2009 UFAs
Batch
Berger
Bryant
Essex
Fox
Frazier
Kemoeatu
Leftwich
McFadden
Roye
M.Smith
Starks
N.Washingon

Speaking generally as to the starters/key personnel...Berger comes back, without question.  After that, I think the only guys that get longterm deals are McFadden, Kemoeatu and Batch.  McFadden needs to sign for less than Ike and Kemo needs to take a Hartwig like deal.  Batch comes back for around the same.

The remaining guys just aren't worth it, IMO.  Starks, Smith, N.Washington, et al. can all be replaced with as good or better talent.

What will make this offseason particularly interesting isn't just the UFAs they've got, it's the UFAs they'll have next year.  I believe Willie, Miller, Ward, J.Harrison, Clark?...Hamp?...Reed?...I think there are a few more that I'm forgetting...will all have expiring deals.

Again, very quickly, I think Miller should be extended; Ward should restructure; Clark should be extended, I think; Harrison probably deserves a whole new deal this year.  Willie?  Hampton?  Dunno.

I'm still holding out hope for a big FA move on the OL, but 20 million doesn't go very far after you resing McFadden and Kemo and extend a few of the core guys before '09 starts.  I still say that Gross should be the #1 target and maybe he'll be willing to play for a contender for 8 million per as opposed to the Chiefs for 10 million per.

*shrugs*

I'd also like to see a modest WR FA signing if Nate leaves.  Michael Jenkins or Devery Henderson...something like that.  That might be pushing it.  Maybe Sweed develops faster than expected and maybe a mid to late rounder surprises and competes.  Baker?  Again, dunno.

Really, I'm still basking in all of this.  Every time I see that #7 to #10 connection, I shake my head in disbelief.  Fucking money.  I know what happened, but I'm not sure if it really hit me yet.
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Steelerdipwad
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« Reply #7 on: Feb 03, 2009 at 15:04 »

Depending on where you get your info, I've seen Pittsburgh anywhere from 17 million under to 25 million under.  To make it easier, let's just say that they'll be around 20 million under; especially after you factor in the cap increase.

Looking very quickly at these upcoming deals:

2009 RFAs
Colon
Arnie Harrison
Anthony Madison
McHugh
Anthony Smith

I think Colon, Madison and Smith get tendered.  I have no guess as to what level, ATM.

2009 UFAs
Batch
Berger
Bryant
Essex
Fox
Frazier
Kemoeatu
Leftwich
McFadden
Roye
M.Smith
Starks
N.Washingon

Speaking generally as to the starters/key personnel...Berger comes back, without question.  After that, I think the only guys that get longterm deals are McFadden, Kemoeatu and Batch.  McFadden needs to sign for less than Ike and Kemo needs to take a Hartwig like deal.  Batch comes back for around the same.

The remaining guys just aren't worth it, IMO.  Starks, Smith, N.Washington, et al. can all be replaced with as good or better talent.

What will make this offseason particularly interesting isn't just the UFAs they've got, it's the UFAs they'll have next year.  I believe Willie, Miller, Ward, J.Harrison, Clark?...Hamp?...Reed?...I think there are a few more that I'm forgetting...will all have expiring deals.

Again, very quickly, I think Miller should be extended; Ward should restructure; Clark should be extended, I think; Harrison probably deserves a whole new deal this year.  Willie?  Hampton?  Dunno.

I'm still holding out hope for a big FA move on the OL, but 20 million doesn't go very far after you resing McFadden and Kemo and extend a few of the core guys before '09 starts.  I still say that Gross should be the #1 target and maybe he'll be willing to play for a contender for 8 million per as opposed to the Chiefs for 10 million per.

*shrugs*

I'd also like to see a modest WR FA signing if Nate leaves.  Michael Jenkins or Devery Henderson...something like that.  That might be pushing it.  Maybe Sweed develops faster than expected and maybe a mid to late rounder surprises and competes.  Baker?  Again, dunno.

Really, I'm still basking in all of this.  Every time I see that #7 to #10 connection, I shake my head in disbelief.  Fucking money.  I know what happened, but I'm not sure if it really hit me yet.

I'm really only anxious about McFadden, Madison, and Fox. If we sign anyone else, it better be at a reasonable number. They don't get the Super Bowl bump. Every other guy is expendable. Fox and Madison solidified the special teams coverage (and they won't take all that much to sign), and McFadden is solid.
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« Reply #8 on: Feb 03, 2009 at 15:09 »

Really, I'm still basking in all of this.  Every time I see that #7 to #10 connection, I shake my head in disbelief.  Fucking money.  I know what happened, but I'm not sure if it really hit me yet.

I think this was the first game where I didn't have to correct my instinct to think #10 is Kordell.  I know it's weird but I see that number and it's a gut reaction.  Holmes has burned that memory away for good I think...


Speaking generally as to the starters/key personnel...Berger comes back, without question.  

Sorry if so but am I missing something here...i thought Robopunter would be back so we can dump Bergers ass??
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« Reply #9 on: Feb 03, 2009 at 15:30 »

Speaking generally as to the starters/key personnel...Berger comes back, without question.  

Sorry if so but am I missing something here...i thought Robopunter would be back so we can dump Bergers ass??

Even if Sepulveda had his kicking leg amputated at the knee and a bus load of punters perished in a firey crash, Berger ain't comin' back.
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Steelerdipwad
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« Reply #10 on: Feb 03, 2009 at 15:32 »

Speaking generally as to the starters/key personnel...Berger comes back, without question.  

Sorry if so but am I missing something here...i thought Robopunter would be back so we can dump Bergers ass??

Even if Sepulveda had his kicking leg amputated at the knee and a bus load of punters perished in a firey crash, Berger ain't comin' back.

I gave him shit all year, but he DID punt fiarly well in the Super Bowl, so I give him credit. He gets a ring after all. But, yeah, he's toast.
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« Reply #11 on: Feb 03, 2009 at 15:32 »

I'm really only anxious about McFadden, Madison, and Fox. If we sign anyone else, it better be at a reasonable number. They don't get the Super Bowl bump. Every other guy is expendable. Fox and Madison solidified the special teams coverage (and they won't take all that much to sign), and McFadden is solid.

Yeah, I shoulda mentioned Foxy too.  I was more focused on starting/key backup position personnel, but STs definitely shouldn't be overlooked.  IMO, safe to say though that Madison and Fox will be back if Pittsburgh wants 'em back (as they should) because I don't see them getting any real FA attention.
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« Reply #12 on: Feb 03, 2009 at 16:08 »

Poor Omar.... 3 weeks instead of 8 to save the team.
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« Reply #13 on: Feb 03, 2009 at 16:19 »

funniest thing about our seats was we were sitting near a lot of families and on the way out we realized our seats were about 12 rows in front of the Bergers....i thought that was a good sign of how the Steelers feel about him.  I laughed for about 5 mins...
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steelerfaninCO
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« Reply #14 on: Feb 03, 2009 at 16:52 »

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I think Foote and Snacks might be willing to take that hometown discount.

Snacks MIGHT be able to get paid somewhere else.  I don't think Foote is going to get a job anywhere else in the league.  Heck, he might not be able to keep the one he has here.

I don't have any doubt someone will throw money at Snacks. I mean look at the deals Ted Washington got. Dallas would pay to bring Hampton back to Texas.

There are some reports that Foote would like to play out his career in Detroit. I mean they suck and all, but he would get paid and still start. Both of which are unlikely in Pittsburgh.
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« Reply #15 on: Feb 03, 2009 at 23:31 »

Quote
2009 RFAs
Colon
Arnie Harrison
Anthony Madison
McHugh
Anthony Smith

I think Colon, Madison and Smith get tendered.  I have no guess as to what level, ATM.

2009 UFAs
Batch
Berger
Bryant
Essex
Fox
Frazier
Kemoeatu
Leftwich
McFadden
Roye
M.Smith
Starks
N.Washingon


I see all of the RFAs getting tendered, most likely mid-lower tier.  Anthony Smith gets the lowest of them all.  He played very sparingly and when he did, he was not very effective.

I see both Starks and Mcfads going for greener pastures.  and by green i mean $.  Think the depth at CB is enough to let him test the market.  Starks is a starting LT on a super bowl winning team and will command some very good interest from alot of other teams.  M.Smith will also get some interest from teams not named the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Is ward scheduled to receive an 8 figure salary next year?  i want to think that he is and would most likely have to reduce that towards a more cap friendly deal.  I want him to finish his career in the black n gold.

All in all the outlook is very good for 2009.  Winning the super bowl is a giant boost towards getting some DECENT FAs.  Ben will have a very similar year numbers wise as he did in 2007.  Im thinking the confidence from this super bowl run will bring 40 TDs in 09.

tweak that OL to a more balanced set of guys that can both pass/run block effectively and the sky is the limit
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« Reply #16 on: Feb 04, 2009 at 06:37 »

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Starks is a starting LT on a super bowl winning team and will command some very good interest from alot of other teams.  M.Smith will also get some interest from teams not named the Pittsburgh Steelers.

I'm just not seeing that, especially for Smith.  Everyone knows that we won in spite of our offensive line, not because of them, so I'm not sure that Starks is going to get offered anything special.  A lot of teams saw Suggs run around him to sack Ben in the AFCC.  Is that the kind of guy you want to pay the big bucks for?

On the other hand, as you point out, being a LT on the SB champions could easily entice someone to overpay. 

I think Smith retires; or signs for a very lowball, incentive-based offer.  I don't see any team paying him serious money, considering his recent injuries and declining play.
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« Reply #17 on: Feb 04, 2009 at 06:46 »

I also think we'll lose McFadden and Starks. Someone will pay them way more than they're worth. Starks isn't that great, it's true, but he has unique size and I think would be a good RT and there are some teams out there that need one.

I wish we could keep McFadden but I don't see it happening. Hope he doesn't become a Raven or a Brown.

Gut feeling is that Nate Washington will stay and not cost that much. I think this would be a good thing, considering that we never know how much Hines has left in the tank. If we lost Washington and Hines was hurt or less effective, our receiving corps would be in serious trouble. In fact, even with Nate, I think we need to sign a cheap veteran WR, maybe someone of Cedrick Wilson caliber, this offseason.

I'd love to see us sign a quality free agent G and draft an OT in round 1. I think those two moves would go a long way to solidifying the line. Of course, we should draft O-linemen later in the draft, too. But I think we'll need to a NT and a CB in rounds 2 and 3 and maybe a WR/KR in round 4. I wouldn't object to us finding a FB in this draft, too.
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« Reply #18 on: Feb 04, 2009 at 09:58 »

I think we need to sign a cheap veteran WR, maybe someone of Cedrick Wilson caliber, this offseason.

I just threw up in mouth.

The Steeler receiver corps will not get a lot of attention. I think they'll use a 4th or 5th round pick on a speed guy, and if they pick up someone in free agency, hopefully it's someone better than Ced. IMO, there are just too many other areas of the team to get shored up first. The o-line, corner, DE, FB canstitutes at least 6 or 7 of our "prime acquisitions", meaning, early draft picks and "big time" free agents. That means Sweed, Holmes and Hines are the primary receivers at the start of camp, and, if Washington is willing to sign cheap, he'll have a shot to fight Sweed for the third spot, but I doubt they'll be willing to spend a lot on him. There are just too many players with his skill set out there who don't have the Super Bowl salary bump delusions.
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« Reply #19 on: Feb 04, 2009 at 10:41 »

That means Sweed, Holmes and Hines are the primary receivers at the start of camp, and, if Washington is willing to sign cheap, he'll have a shot to fight Sweed for the third spot, but I doubt they'll be willing to spend a lot on him. There are just too many players with his skill set out there who don't have the Super Bowl salary bump delusions.

There is NO way Sweed should start camp as the 3rd receiver. The 3rd receiver plays about 70-80% of the snaps in BA's offense. Sweed had as many catches as he had penalties and drops combined last year. No one is going to pay Nate, and I bet he comes back with a reasonable contract as he should. If he does come back, it wont be much of a fight with Sweed, as Nate knows way more about the routes, the offense, and Ben's tendencies.

I think they should draft a Day 2 speed guy, for KO's, and resing Nate. Sweed needs another year methinks. They just won the SB with SH, Hines, and Nate, so IMO, they will be fine next year with the same guys. If Sweed magically improves, rotate him in more often, but I don't see it happening next year. Obviously, if Nate gets a big offer, or demands big money, seeya...Then its on to Plan B, but I just think the Steelers will tender Nate a decent, but relatively low offer which won't get improved on by another team, and he will come back. And I hope he does, the guy came up BIG on the Dallas drive and the huge Division clinching drive in Balty.
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« Reply #20 on: Feb 04, 2009 at 11:53 »

The Sweed factor is why I said in the other post that Nate Washington signing should be a high prioirty.

Hines (probably has a couple years left in the tank if he wants them), Santonio, and Sweed as the Steelers only 3 receivers going into the draft???

God forbid Holmes or Ward get hurt.

Need to make sure Washington is our 3rd receiver for a few more years. If Sweed breaks out in his second year, all the more comfortable the thought of Hines eventually retiring becomes.
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« Reply #21 on: Feb 04, 2009 at 14:22 »

How about we find someone other than our little-used fullback and our goal-line back to return kickoffs?

I will give Davis credit, he is great on STs.  But he still ain't no Dan Kreider.
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« Reply #22 on: Feb 04, 2009 at 14:31 »

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On the other hand, as you point out, being a LT on the SB champions could easily entice someone to overpay.

Let me present exhibit A:  Larry Brown.  there are ALOT of stupid teams out there.  the list is ever so shrinking, but there are still desperate teams out there
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« Reply #23 on: Feb 04, 2009 at 15:08 »

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On the other hand, as you point out, being a LT on the SB champions could easily entice someone to overpay.

Let me present exhibit A:  Larry Brown.  there are ALOT of stupid teams out there.  the list is ever so shrinking, but there are still desperate teams out there

In all the pre-XLIII stuff, didn't I read that the year we drafted Troy, we had been pursuing Dexter Jackson?  And that he coincidentally hopped a jet to Zona to sign for more money?

Yeah, that worked out.
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« Reply #24 on: Feb 04, 2009 at 15:43 »

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On the other hand, as you point out, being a LT on the SB champions could easily entice someone to overpay.

Let me present exhibit A:  Larry Brown.  there are ALOT of stupid teams out there.  the list is ever so shrinking, but there are still desperate teams out there

In all the pre-XLIII stuff, didn't I read that the year we drafted Troy, we had been pursuing Dexter Jackson?  And that he coincidentally hopped a jet to Zona to sign for more money?

Yeah, that worked out.

I remember that. We thought we had Jackson signed, and he got the bigger offer at the last second. If we had gotten him, we supposedly would have drafted Larry Johnson. That might not have turned out all bad either.
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« Reply #25 on: Feb 05, 2009 at 08:00 »

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On the other hand, as you point out, being a LT on the SB champions could easily entice someone to overpay.

Let me present exhibit A:  Larry Brown.  there are ALOT of stupid teams out there.  the list is ever so shrinking, but there are still desperate teams out there


Tend to worry that this might be how it will go down. Some team will see Nate's big play ability (and fail to notice his large list of drops), and overpay.

Wonder if maybe we can pick up some servicable veteran for a little less. Anyone think that ARE will be available?  It is possible that the Skins will cut him?
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« Reply #26 on: Feb 05, 2009 at 08:49 »

We're in better shape than we usually are, cap-wise, but still are only middle of the pack.

Projected 2009 NFL Salary Cap Space for Each Team 

Rank Team $ Under the Cap
1  Tampa Bay Buccaneers  $42000000 
2  Arizona Cardinals  $41000000 
3  Denver Broncos  $34000000 
4  Kansas City Chiefs  $33000000 
5  Tennessee Titans  $31000000 
6  Miami Dolphins  $28000000 
7  Buffalo Bills  $27000000 
8  Detroit Lions  $26000000 
9  San Francisco 49ers  $26000000 
10  Houston Texans  $25000000 
11  Philadelphia Eagles  $25000000 
12  Cincinnati Bengals  $22000000 
13  New England Patriots  $21000000 
14  Minnesota Vikings  $20000000 
15  Atlanta Falcons  $20000000 
16  Pittsburgh Steelers  $19000000 
17  Baltimore Ravens  $19000000 
18  Chicago Bears  $19000000 
19  Green Bay Packers  $18000000 
20  Cleveland Browns  $17000000 
21  Jacksonville Jaguars  $16000000 
22  San Diego Chargers  $14000000 
23  NY Giants  $11000000 
24  Dallas Cowboys  $10000000 
25  Carolina Panthers  $9000000 
26  Seattle Seahawks  $9000000 
27  St. Louis Rams  $8000000 
28  Oakland Raiders  $4000000 
29  Indianapolis Colts  $2000000 
30  Washington Redskins  $-3000000 
31  New Orleans Saints  $-5000000 
32  NY Jets  $-7000000 
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« Reply #27 on: Feb 05, 2009 at 09:10 »

I wonder how much that 19 mil shrinks when we extend Harrison, Hampton, Miller, and Clark.
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« Reply #28 on: Feb 05, 2009 at 09:43 »

Hopefully it won't shrink by much due to spreading out the bonuses.  IF the Rooneys have the cash flow to pay out large bonuses.

Miller would be the one to consume the most cap space in 09 with an extension IMO, due to the fact he's still in his rooke contract.

I would like to see the Hines extension/restructure (11M hit currently) and Foote(3M reduction?) cut to spare a little more cap space.
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« Reply #29 on: Feb 05, 2009 at 17:00 »

Glad to see the Redskins have finally had all that FA spending idiocy catch up to them.
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« Reply #30 on: Feb 05, 2009 at 19:25 »

I think that there will be no cap next year as it stands now.  If that is the case what if we extend a bunch of guys and then there is a cap?  Will we have to cut guys to get under it?  I say re- structure Ward and Sign Heath and Harrison long term and approach this years free agents accordingly.  Deal with Parker etc. next year.
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« Reply #31 on: Feb 05, 2009 at 19:48 »

2010 will be an uncapped year if there is no new CBA. I think you meant that by saying "next year", but to clarify for people, its the 2010 season that will uncapped if things stay as they are.
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« Reply #32 on: Feb 05, 2009 at 19:57 »


13  New England Patriots  $21000000 


That's pre-Cassie franchise, correct?
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steelerfaninCO
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« Reply #33 on: Feb 05, 2009 at 20:45 »


13  New England Patriots  $21000000 


That's pre-Cassie franchise, correct?

That should be correct. These figures were done before the franchise tag, and don't reflect any new deals since the end of the season.
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« Reply #34 on: Feb 05, 2009 at 22:04 »

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17  Baltimore Ravens  $19000000 


looks like balty isnt sitting so pretty with all those UFAs they have on defense.  Plus in sure that figure doesnt reflect the extra $3M in incentives that fucco earned either.

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« Reply #35 on: Feb 11, 2009 at 10:31 »

Apparantely Foote is staying here... I guess that's a good thing.  It will give Bruce Davis or whoever another year of development..

http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com/2009/02/what-comes-around.html
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« Reply #36 on: Feb 11, 2009 at 10:36 »

Apparantely Foote is staying here... I guess that's a good thing.  It will give Bruce Davis or whoever another year of development..

http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com/2009/02/what-comes-around.html


Damned work firewalls.  Can't open the link.
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« Reply #37 on: Feb 11, 2009 at 11:01 »

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« Reply #38 on: Feb 11, 2009 at 12:49 »

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The Steelers took a lot of heat for paying Max Starks $7 million in 2008. Look how that worked out.

I would revise that to say, "Look what happened."  I don't exactly feel like it "worked out."

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aj_law
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« Reply #39 on: Feb 11, 2009 at 12:50 »

The Steelers took a lot of heat for paying Max Starks $7 million in 2008. Look how that worked out.

Apples and oranges, IMO.
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