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Author Topic: We don't need no stinkin' evidence  (Read 4871 times)
whitmer_87
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« Reply #10 on: Feb 12, 2009 at 10:46 »

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13620-evolution-24-myths-and-misconceptions.htm

This is a great site that offers a lot of information on the subject. I honestly don't see how anyone can deny evolution. I don't see it as a political view that can be debated, I see it as a scientific theory. We don't have debates on whether gravity exists or not do who? It's pretty clean cut IMO. I understand that people all over the world have their religious views, and they think Evolution contradicts those views. But here is an interesting quote from the link above:

Quote
The biologist Stephen Jay Gould argued that there is no conflict between science and religion: "Science tries to document the factual character of the natural world, and to develop theories that coordinate and explain those facts. Religion, on the other hand, operates in the equally important, but utterly different, realm of human purposes, meanings, and values."


Why do so many religious people get offended about Evolution? Doesn't the Bible claim the earth is 6,000 years old, and flat? Does anyone still believe that? Do people actually think that fossils and rocks were put here by Satan to fool all the scientists into believing that these things are millions and sometimes billions of years old? Does anyone still believe in the Geocentric Theory? Science does it's thing, and so does religion. If you want to live your life by as certain set of guidelines and moral standards given in a religion by all means, do so. But what does that personal spiritual relationship have anything at all to do with Evolution? Or the Heliocentric Theory? Or Radiometric Dating Methods?
« Last Edit: Feb 12, 2009 at 10:48 by whitmer_87 » Logged

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dare2beme
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« Reply #11 on: Feb 12, 2009 at 11:09 »

Why do so many religious people get offended about Evolution? Doesn't the Bible claim the earth is 6,000 years old, and flat? Does anyone still believe that?

Unfortunately, yes.

http://www.independencebaptist.org/6,000%20Year%20Old%20Earth/6,000_year_old_earth1.htm

Edit: Here's another one. Complete with "proof" that dinosaurs and people lived together and no dinosaurs were meat-eaters:
http://www.missiontoamerica.com/genesis/six-thousand-years.html
« Last Edit: Feb 12, 2009 at 11:24 by dare2beme » Logged

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whitmer_87
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« Reply #12 on: Feb 12, 2009 at 11:25 »

Why do so many religious people get offended about Evolution? Doesn't the Bible claim the earth is 6,000 years old, and flat? Does anyone still believe that?

Unfortunately, yes.

http://www.independencebaptist.org/6,000%20Year%20Old%20Earth/6,000_year_old_earth1.htm

Edit: Here's another one.  Complete with "proof" that dinosaurs and people lived together and no dinosaurs were meat-eaters:
http://www.missiontoamerica.com/genesis/six-thousand-years.html


Must be Satan at work again...convincing all those scientists to go down the wrong path.
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« Reply #13 on: Feb 12, 2009 at 11:28 »

O-KAY, I happen to "drop by" the gen. discussion section, and what do I find?  A big ole fish ready for me to real it in!  Not shellfish, of course...don't want to offend Otis or anything!  Grin

I have to keep this short because I'm preparing to preside over a funeral service tomorrow (someone who died of cancer--of course, what else?).  I will, however, provide you a few "tidbits" to get the mind racing before I come back with a complete answer next week.

Let me state for the record and without reservation that I am NOT a "Creationist" or "Intelligent Design" supporter, and I am not an apologist for these people.  In fact, I think that evolution in some form or fashion is most likely a reality.  But I doubt that it is as "complete" as some people and/or scientists make it out to be.  At the same time (and in answer to Whitmer's inquiry) I don't believe the Bible teaches that the world is flat, was created in six 24-hour days, or is only 6000 years old.

I suspect that reality lies somewhere beneath the two theories, and that both are necessary.  I would even argue that Biblical creation and evolution "need" one another.  

Now, I could go on for days about this, but I'm short on time, so let me summarize as best I can.  Biblical Creation, without some notion of progress of the world that God created, basically makes God a simpleton.  It takes away any notion of human responsibility for their actions, and it narrows God down to a box where we can figure "Him" out.  I personally do not want a God that I can figure out, that is so close to my "level."  I want (and believe) God to be much bigger than me, and much more advanced beyond my ability to figure "Him" out (I'm not saying God is a male, just using "Him" for point of reference).  God tells me in the Bible what I need to know.  That's why it doesn't say how long it took for creation to happen, how old the world is, etc., because I don't need that information to have a strong faith in God.  The Bible says that God knows how many hairs are on my head, but He doesn't share that with me because I don't need to know.

If we don't need the information, then why are Christians spending so much time, energy, and money to figure it out?  I have no explanation for this.

As for evolution, the theory itself has "evolved" quite a bit from Darwin's original work.  It has sometimes evolved to areas that we do not need for it to go.  Without some idea of a Divine Creator behind these events, it is far too easy to drift into Social Darwinism and irresponsibility for taking care of the world we have.  Christians have their own problems with this, but that's a sermon for another day.

If we assume that everything is simply "survival of the fittest," then why worry about the environment?  Why concern ourselves with the "have-nots" of the world?  These are attitudes that are directly in opposition to the commands of Christ, and they are where full-blown evolutionary theory can easily take us.

I also have to remember that much in science has changed over the centuries.  What is good for you today will kill you tomorrow, what is "truth" now may be falsehood in just a few years.  To assume that science is the search for absolute truth is a myth, because scientific truth changes as we learn more and more about the world.  While I have no doubt that many aspects of evolution are true, I think it is always a mistake to define science as "truthful" and religion as merely "myth."  

Well, that is merely a STARTER for my thoughts on the matter (as if anyone's interested anyway).  But, the bottom line is that truth often lies somewhere in the middle of the polar opposites.  I think the world is a product of Divine Creation that began a process of evolution.  

But, if I was forced to pick a side, I'd prolly go with the 63%.
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whitmer_87
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« Reply #14 on: Feb 12, 2009 at 11:29 »

Quote
God didn't call His creation just good. He called it very good

I dunno about you guys, but I'm convinced...
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« Reply #15 on: Feb 12, 2009 at 11:39 »

Quote
Why do so many religious people get offended about Evolution? Doesn't the Bible claim the earth is 6,000 years old, and flat? Does anyone still believe that?

Unfortunately, yes.

http://www.independencebaptist.org/6,000%20Year%20Old%20Earth/6,000_year_old_earth1.htm

Edit: Here's another one.  Complete with "proof" that dinosaurs and people lived together and no dinosaurs were meat-eaters:
http://www.missiontoamerica.com/genesis/six-thousand-years.html



Must be Satan at work again...convincing all those scientists to go down the wrong path.


Let me try once again to quickly reply to this.  These websites and those who "wrote" the work on them are ignoring a LOT of Biblical evidence.  They do not take any kind of Biblical criticism into account when they create these "timelines" for the world, and that is a mistake.  They are extreme literalists, which I am not. 

In order to believe this, you have to believe that there was never any measure of time that differs from our current measures.  One also has to assume that God was emphatically concerned with a "timeline" that we could comprehend.  They also ignore the fact that Biblical writers were trying to interpret GOD for human beings, a task that would require them to put some things into the best, most comprehensible terms that we could possibly understand.  I believe that the Bible is "without error" in its theology, but not necessarily from a scientific p.o.v. 

The TRUTH that the Bible is trying to convey to us is truth about the nature of God and how God wants human beings to live.  It has some science in it, to be sure, but that is far from the true purpose of scripture.

I get so tired of having to "defend" and "explain" Christian faith because of these attention-seeking zealots.
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dare2beme
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« Reply #16 on: Feb 12, 2009 at 11:56 »

Don't forget these truths:

1.  The Sun does not produce the light of day, since day and night were created in Day 1, 3 days before the Sun was created.  Also, have you noticed during a sunrise, that the light of day fills the sky before the sun becomes visible, thus proving that it can't be the Sun that produces that light.

2.  We are all inbreds, decendent from Noah.

 wacko
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« Reply #17 on: Feb 12, 2009 at 12:07 »

I think Art Rooney (and some cousins) created the earth.
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« Reply #18 on: Feb 12, 2009 at 12:18 »

As for evolution, the theory itself has "evolved" quite a bit from Darwin's original work.  It has sometimes evolved to areas that we do not need for it to go.  Without some idea of a Divine Creator behind these events, it is far too easy to drift into Social Darwinism and irresponsibility for taking care of the world we have.  Christians have their own problems with this, but that's a sermon for another day.

If we assume that everything is simply "survival of the fittest," then why worry about the environment?  Why concern ourselves with the "have-nots" of the world?  These are attitudes that are directly in opposition to the commands of Christ, and they are where full-blown evolutionary theory can easily take us.

Of course the theory has evolved since being published.  Same for the works of Newton and Einstein, people have continued to work in those areas, fleshing out the sparse places, making small corrections as needed.  More evidence has been accumulated and the theories help to interpret/explain new observations.  Science grows.

Social Darwinism?  Nothing to do with biology - don't blame Darwin for that.  Why would a person want to take care of the world?  Why would we chose to be kind to our neighbors?  How about simple self-preservation?  Survival.  We humans have come to learn that we do better in communities than in isolation.  We do better if we use our resources carefully.  None of that requires a creator, people are smart enough to figure it out.

« Last Edit: Feb 12, 2009 at 12:20 by jonzr » Logged

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dare2beme
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« Reply #19 on: Feb 12, 2009 at 12:23 »

I think Art Rooney (and some cousins) created the earth.

And that Earth is only just over 75 years old.  While there have been many disciples during the age of the Old Testament, there are only 3 disciples from the New Testament, each of which have written their own Books: The Book of Chuck, The Book of Bill, and the Book of Mike, the latest which is still being translated to this day. Smiley
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