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Author Topic: Jeff Saturday...Yes or No?!?  (Read 2161 times)
ben2hines4six
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« on: Feb 24, 2009 at 23:11 »

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_613269.html


For the right deal, I would bring this guy aboard in a heartbeat. Either move him to guard, or more likely move Hartwig to guard.

Perhaps a two year deal, for 7 mil or so?

Starks-Hartwig/Saturday-Saturday/Hartwig-Stapleton-Colon


I am all for the outright cut of Simmons....anything to get him out of here...truth be told, I would LOVE to get rid of Colon as well....he would be more tolerable at guard I think (as has been discussed), but it seems the Steelers refuse to even consider him playing there.

Ideally, I would find a right tackle in the draft to replace Colon and have him battle it out with Stapleton for the other guard spot. Or more likely, Pitt will take a highly regarded guard, and start him right away.


Something like:

Starks-(draft)-Saturday-Harwig-Colon

depth-Stapleton, Hills, Essex, cheap FA pickup or draft pick(s)


I may be of the minority here, but I actually like Max (especially at the LT spot).
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steelerfaninCO
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« Reply #1 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 00:07 »

In short, NO. Not at center. He does not have the strength to deal with large NT's. Hampton always destroys him. Same with Williams, Ngata, etc. Maybe at guard, but def not at center. His run blocking isn't that great (he was at Indy) and right now the Steelers need to be able to pound out a yard on the GL. He would be no help there.

IMO, Hartwig sucked the least on the OL last year. Of course he wasn't perfect, but Colon was a much bigger liability.
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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #2 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 06:22 »

No.  Sorry.  He's 34, and bringing him in is just... going the wrong way.
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SCacalaki
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« Reply #3 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 06:34 »

A few things...

1) Saturday's age doesn't concern me as much as his injury history the past two seasons.

2) If the Steelers are looking at Saturday at guard, I'm intrigued.  Hartwig was the surest thing on the OL last year and I believe Hartwig has said he prefers playing OC

3) For what $$ and for how long? 

4) Ultimately, this year's draft is deep at IOL.  This is where Saturday's age would be a factor for me...if in signing Saturday, the Steelers decide to pass on younger IOL.  If so, we're in the same spot this time next year; needing to draft IOL.

5) Hopefully the Steelers let Kemoeatu walk.
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Preacherman0
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« Reply #4 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 07:19 »

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Ultimately, this year's draft is deep at IOL.  This is where Saturday's age would be a factor for me...if in signing Saturday, the Steelers decide to pass on younger IOL.  If so, we're in the same spot this time next year; needing to draft IOL.

Perhaps they bring in Saturday for G, Mack for C, and put Hartwig as a backup? 

I actually think this move would be a band-aid, kind of like tagging Starks (although that's a HUGE bandaid).  Buys time to make some long-term moves.

I'm just glad that they are at least looking into doing SOMETHING.
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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #5 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 07:57 »

I agree with Scac except for the comment about this being a deep IOL class.  It's thick at the top, say maybe 3 rounds.  You'll find good value.  But after that, you're left grasping, IMO.
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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #6 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 08:29 »

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Steelers | Saturday wants to sign
Wed, 25 Feb 2009 05:52:09 -0800

John Harris, of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, reports Indianapolis Colts impending free-agent C Jeff Saturday wants to join the Pittsburgh Steelers. "I talked to Jeff after the Super Bowl, and he said if you can get me there, that would be beautiful," said Pittsburgh-based agent Ralph Cindrich. "This is a Rooney-type of guy if ever there was one." Saturday said he would even move to the guard position if he were to join the team. "He's happy to play guard. He started in the league at guard. He told me, 'I'll play anywhere,' " Cindrich said.

Wow, he's pretty open about wanting to play here, at least.  If he can play G, Kemo walks, and we still draft some solid IOL talent, I guess it comes down to the deal.  How long, how much.  I'd still like to develop IOL talent, but maybe this can be seen as just an upgrade over Kemo.  Whatever.
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dare2beme
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« Reply #7 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 08:39 »

Run blocking/manhandling issues aside, it is my understanding that Saturday is a good OL "quarterback", capable of calling the coverages and audibling when needed.  Considering the OL communication issues in the past, this may be just what the doctor ordered to counter our anemic coaching, aside from new coaches. Tongue
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« Reply #8 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 08:44 »

I'm not sure that Hartwig did all that well.  I read somewhere in the last week that he gave up more sacks than anyone else on the OL.  Moreover, the Steelers biggest problem last year was that the OL was constantly confused and gave up sacks to defensive lineman who were using simple line stunts.  Jaff Saturday would help significantly with that issue. 

I agree that it would be a short term fix, and it most certainly not help with short yardage situations.
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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #9 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 09:13 »

http://images.broadwayworld.com/photoops/shieldschicago/rookeShieldsBackontheBoards008-vi.jpg

Come on... you know you want me to play guard!  I'm hairier than a fucking baboon, and I smell like one, too!
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RoundTripperKipper
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« Reply #10 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 09:15 »

I'm not sure that Hartwig did all that well.  I read somewhere in the last week that he gave up more sacks than anyone else on the OL.  Moreover, the Steelers biggest problem last year was that the OL was constantly confused and gave up sacks to defensive lineman who were using simple line stunts.  Jaff Saturday would help significantly with that issue. 

I agree that it would be a short term fix, and it most certainly not help with short yardage situations.

In Hartwig's defense he may have had the worst/dumbest guard in the league lining up to his left.
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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #11 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 09:30 »

I'm not sure that Hartwig did all that well.  I read somewhere in the last week that he gave up more sacks than anyone else on the OL.  Moreover, the Steelers biggest problem last year was that the OL was constantly confused and gave up sacks to defensive lineman who were using simple line stunts.  Jaff Saturday would help significantly with that issue. 

I agree that it would be a short term fix, and it most certainly not help with short yardage situations.

In Hartwig's defense he may have had the worst/dumbest guard in the league lining up to his left.

Yeah, and Stapleton started to get beat regularly toward the end of the season.  That never helps.  I liked the way Hartwig held his own against bigger NTs, but would still like to see us get our C of the future in this draft class.
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Preacherman0
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« Reply #12 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 09:35 »

Quote
In Hartwig's defense he may have had the worst/dumbest guard in the league lining up to his left.

And a first-year starter on the other.  Hard to say who actually "gave up" all those sacks on the interior, where you're supposed to be switching off and picking up stunts.  On the outside it's pretty obvious.  At any rate, I would say that Saturday could be an upgrade at any of the three IOL spots.

This really doesn't change much for us in the draft, we still need to go heavy OL.  I understand the need for DL depth and future development, but the starters are still at a pretty high level.  To me, that immediately makes it a less pressing need.  

OL is so critical this year for us.  I actually believe that we can make another serious run next year if we upgrade the line, BA's stupidity not withstanding.
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DCSteelers
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« Reply #13 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 10:08 »

If Saturday wants to be here in a friendly 2-3 year deal:

Leave Hartwig at center this year and move Saturday to guard.

1) CUT Simmons and resign Kemo, Saturday starts at RG...
OR
2) Let Kemo walk and have Saturday start LG.

Stapleton can be the backup on all 3 positions.  A guard would have to be a round 1 or 2 pick this year then.  After this year, move Saturday to center and the draftee to start LG, if Hartwig walks.

The biggest concern with this is that ALL of the line's contracts are up within the next year or two..  Adding Saturday might solidify somethings for next year, but this line isn't going to be cohesive until we start getting some draftees or long term solutions in here.  Max Starks will probably be the first "long termer" we will have anchoring the line as I think they'll work out a deal.  Even though Simmons is in the middle of a 4/5 year deal, I think he's more likely to be cut than be concidered and anchor.
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ben2hines4six
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« Reply #14 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 11:05 »

Preach, I pretty much agree with you all around.

I am not advocating ignoring the OL in the draft by any means. I've wanted them to draft top o-line guys for about three years now.

I just think Saturday could offer some flexibility, and by all accounts, he is a smart guy.

If Simmons and Kemo are gone (and I wish Colon, but he will be back), the Steelers will need to replace them with capable bodies. Saturday would be an upgrade over Kemo, Stapleton or Simmons, and at least be on par with Hartwig.

In short, it's nice to see things like this. At least we know the team is LOOKING, whether he signs here or not.
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« Reply #15 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 11:14 »

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The biggest concern with this is that ALL of the line's contracts are up within the next year or two.. 

No offense, but I'm not sure why that's such a big concern.  There is no way teams will be clamoring to sing these guys, so we have plenty of time and plenty of leverage for those we choose to keep.  And I think this gives us more flexibility to let most of them walk, and I think we need to do just that.  Make a strategic singing or two, draft well, and the contracts will not be an issue.
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« Reply #16 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 11:25 »

No.  Sorry.  He's 34, and bringing him in is just... going the wrong way.

Have to agree with that.  Plus, he has the Manning taint even though it was Manning who was all up in his taint.  Taint by association it is.
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steelerfaninCO
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« Reply #17 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 11:26 »

Simmons is only gone if he gets cut, which would be surprising since he just resinged.

I will be bummed if they use cap space on a 34 year old center, so he can play LG for a season. Just makes no sense whatsoever. IMO, only LG seems up for grabs right now. I'm sure Colon will get tendered, Simmons will be in camp, Hartwig is still the starting center(unless they go R1 on a C), and Starks is apparently the LT. That's leaves Kemo, who should NOT be resinged, IMO. The cheapest solution might be to draft Mack, move Hartwig to LG, and tender Colon. They already proved they can win the SB with a suck OL, so, I believe that money spent on the OL should be to young, promising players not named Kemo. But since the FO kinda already fucked up by paying Starks 15 mil, who knows what they are going to do.

The bottom line on Saturday is, does he improve the team in the long term? No, he would be a band-aid, and a waste of money. I'd rather take my chances with what they got, and resing Nate, or bring in a DE, or try to keep BM, or BL, or sign a FB, etc, etc.
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« Reply #18 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 11:29 »

I've been saying that they need to make a quality FA OL move this year.  If they can't score a big FA OT, then one of the better, versatile IOL in the league is the next best thing.  

FWIW, he knows a thing aboot pass blockin' and when he was out, Indy's O-line went to shit.  He comes back and they're a solid, cohesive group again.

I'd sing him to 3 year deal that averages out to about what a top RFA tender would cost (2-2.5 mil~ish); cut Simmons and reap about that much in cap savings; give Kemo a R2 tender offer (1.5 mil~ish) and let him play out the year; and, draft Unger.

Interior of the line looks much better, IMO.  And, you can go with a multitude of combinations with having to choose from Saturday, Hartwig, Unger, Kemo.  The first three could pretty much play anywhere in the middle.

I'd probably go with, from left to right:  Unger ~ Saturday ~ Hartwig
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steelerfaninCO
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« Reply #19 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 12:02 »

FWIW, he knows a thing aboot pass blockin' and when he was out, Indy's O-line went to shit.  He comes back and they're a solid, cohesive group again.


I don't think you can compare the two team's OL philosophy, and frankly I don't care about pass blocking. Yeah, yeah, Ben's getting sacked a lot, but this team's main offensive line problem, to me, is the lost ability to create a new LOS and gain a freakin' yard when they need to. There were WAY too many times the Steeler O kicked FG's, or was just plain stopped in short yardage situations due to a lack of a push on running plays. Jeff would be no help at all to the run game.

Indy's system has PM calling blocking responsibilites, and the ball is usually out quickly. Peyton can't run, so the OL doesn't have to think about him moving around. I can't think of a QB not in federal prison, who's game is more different from Manning's as Ben's is. Ben needs to run around,  improvise, do his thing, and to assume Saturday can step right in, and play well in a totally different offensive mindset, is a BIG assumption. Waste of money, IMO, and would do nothing but delay the much needed OL rebuilding.
« Last Edit: Feb 25, 2009 at 12:04 by steelerfaninCO » Logged
steelerfaninCO
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« Reply #20 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 12:34 »

Saturday reportedly turned down a Colt's offer last week. Anyone know what he was offered?
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« Reply #21 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 12:46 »

Quote
The biggest concern with this is that ALL of the line's contracts are up within the next year or two.. 

No offense, but I'm not sure why that's such a big concern.  There is no way teams will be clamoring to sing these guys, so we have plenty of time and plenty of leverage for those we choose to keep.  And I think this gives us more flexibility to let most of them walk, and I think we need to do just that.  Make a strategic singing or two, draft well, and the contracts will not be an issue.

Part of what makes an O-line great is playing together for a period of time to know how to pick up stunts and what your neighbor's role is.  Smith - Faneca - Hartings - Simmons (Vincent/Ross/Starks thrown in there) played together in a period where the O-line was considered to be the best in the NFL.  Moving people in and out of the line, especially multiple people in and out promotes confusion and incohesion as we've seen last year.  We need several anchors on the line to make it improve.  Signing these 1-2 year deals and having constant rotation will lead us down the same path of trouble that we've been in, no matter who we sing.
« Last Edit: Feb 25, 2009 at 12:53 by DCSteelers » Logged
sage
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« Reply #22 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 13:38 »

If he wants to come to a winner and not break our bank, I'm all for it. He's better than pretty much anyone we've got in my book. Smart, and seems to be a Steeler-type player. Hartings was in the same mold, and I think he turned out fine.
Couldn't agree more with the people calling for Simmons to be cut! Also, to those who want Kemo cut....would a first round draft pick be any better? Maybe, but until they prove it at the NFL level, I'd be inclined to stick with the guy with experience.
My ideal line based on what we got, or mayber will get:
LT- Starks
LG- Kemo/Draft pick
C- Hartwig
RG- Saturday/Draft pick
RT- Essex/Draft pick

Just my opinion.....
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leighclay
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« Reply #23 on: Feb 25, 2009 at 14:14 »

If he wants to come to a winner and not break our bank, I'm all for it. He's better than pretty much anyone we've got in my book. Smart, and seems to be a Steeler-type player. Hartings was in the same mold, and I think he turned out fine.
Couldn't agree more with the people calling for Simmons to be cut! Also, to those who want Kemo cut....would a first round draft pick be any better? Maybe, but until they prove it at the NFL level, I'd be inclined to stick with the guy with experience.
My ideal line based on what we got, or mayber will get:
LT- Starks
LG- Kemo/Draft pick
C- Hartwig
RG- Saturday/Draft pick
RT- Essex/Draft pick

Just my opinion.....

I'm with Sage on this one.
And good to see ya back on here, buddy!  Just for that.... eck02 eck02

Anyway, as I was saying...if Saturday wants to come and take a pay cut and play where he fits best for us, bring the big guy on over.  In fact, I'm gonna go sacrifice a couple of chickens now to make that happen.

 duckie duckie m16

Ducks, chickens...whatever.
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sage
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« Reply #24 on: Feb 26, 2009 at 13:28 »

thanks LC! i always peek in, but just haven't had the time to do much posting! Mmmmm, sacrificed chicken....

Also though, how long has it been since a decent name free agent has wanted to come to the Steelers??

If he wants to come to a winner and not break our bank, I'm all for it. He's better than pretty much anyone we've got in my book. Smart, and seems to be a Steeler-type player. Hartings was in the same mold, and I think he turned out fine.
Couldn't agree more with the people calling for Simmons to be cut! Also, to those who want Kemo cut....would a first round draft pick be any better? Maybe, but until they prove it at the NFL level, I'd be inclined to stick with the guy with experience.
My ideal line based on what we got, or mayber will get:
LT- Starks
LG- Kemo/Draft pick
C- Hartwig
RG- Saturday/Draft pick
RT- Essex/Draft pick

Just my opinion.....

I'm with Sage on this one.
And good to see ya back on here, buddy!  Just for that.... eck02 eck02

Anyway, as I was saying...if Saturday wants to come and take a pay cut and play where he fits best for us, bring the big guy on over.  In fact, I'm gonna go sacrifice a couple of chickens now to make that happen.

 duckie duckie m16

Ducks, chickens...whatever.
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DCSteelers
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« Reply #25 on: Feb 26, 2009 at 16:13 »

Well, with Simmons released, we need to add a starting Guard to our line in 2009.  Whether it's moving Colon in, via the draft, or FA, it's got to happen.

I think Stapleton is a good middle line back-up.
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« Reply #26 on: Feb 26, 2009 at 16:14 »

Well, with Simmons released, we need to add a starting Guard (OR TWO)to our line in 2009.  Whether it's moving Colon in, via the draft, or FA, it's got to happen.

I think Stapleton is a good middle line back-up.
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« Reply #27 on: Feb 26, 2009 at 19:14 »

So much for that.  Signs a 3 year deal to stay in Indy.  From what I've heard about the money (top 3 OCs), Pittsburgh woulda never got into the ballpark anyway.
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