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Author Topic: Runyan to the Steelers?  (Read 3085 times)
steelerfaninCO
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« Reply #20 on: Apr 30, 2009 at 11:48 »

I have to agree with jcharding about the difference between the '05 OL and the '08 version. Completely different squards playing at completely different levels. Throw in the Bus, and his ability to ALWAYS gain 3 yards, and it's a different offense. The Steelers have won 1 SB with a shitty OL. They won last year because Ben is bona fide stud, there is talent and heart at WR, Ben is muthafucking clutch, and they had the best defense the league had seen in a long time.

Let's try to remember that there are several factors contributing to the sack and YPC numbers. Even though he is fucking awesome, Ben does hold onto the ball rather long at times, exposing himself to sacks. He also hasn't perfected the art of the throwing the ball away in hopeless situations, although he is getting better at this. The playcalling exposes Ben to sacks as well. Who the fuck knows what BA is thinking, or seeing, most of the time. Combine these things with poor OL play, and you get a lot of sacks.

As far as YPC, when can we make the correlation between FB, and no FB, and YPC? How many times do we have to read FWP say he prefers to run behind a FB? The team switched from a bruising experienced FB, to Carey Davis or no one, and people wonder why production is down.

When is the Z-man's coaching ability going to be questioned? How does this guy still have a job? Why does he (and MT) insist on playing a RG at RT?

The FO has really put themselves in a bad position here because the Tony Hill's of the world aren't beating the odds, the team can't spend big money on studs, and they haven't drafted one. We got another year with this crew, and hopefully everyone, from the OL, BA, and to some extent BR, improves.
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aj_law
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« Reply #21 on: Apr 30, 2009 at 16:37 »

You know that old saw about there being a fine line between winning and losing?

We had, what, 4 come from behind wins last year?  12-4 gets you to the playoffs.  8-8 doesn't.

6, actually.  Baltimore, Jacksonville, Sandy Eggo, Dallas, Balty (again.  Witnessed first hand) and XLIII.

But, who's counting.
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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #22 on: Apr 30, 2009 at 18:49 »

You know that old saw about there being a fine line between winning and losing?

We had, what, 4 come from behind wins last year?  12-4 gets you to the playoffs.  8-8 doesn't.

6, actually.  Baltimore, Jacksonville, Sandy Eggo, Dallas, Balty (again.  Witnessed first hand) and XLIII.

But, who's counting.

I stand corrected.  Irony of ironies to win it all with 6 come from behinds versus the hardest sched, but miss it because we eff up those types of games this year with the easier sched.  Hope it doesn't come to that.
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DCSteelers
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« Reply #23 on: Apr 30, 2009 at 20:55 »

2006 comes to mind.  Should have been 12-4 (or better) with that team and schedule.
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« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2009 at 19:19 »

to retort:  don't misconstrue my comments about the current o-line as an endorsement of their underachievement.  I agree that they leave much to be desired, as well as agree on the front office's lacking investments in quality protection for Ben.  Both good points, and both are dead horses.

What we have yet to see is what will occur this year.  In fact, we still haven't finalized the roster yet.  Conceding the fact that Starks, Kemo, Harting, Colon will start; Stapleton will likely beat out Urbik, at least until the bye week.  This leaves opportunity for guys like Shipley (whose alligator arms will obviously fail him in this league.. but there are some PSU homers here who think he's the shit), Tony Hills, etc.  And all of them suck.   angry4

Part of the strategy of the game is to determine ways to conceal (as best you can) your weakest points.  I know it's rather hard when you know you can't get an accurate definition of a "stunt" from anyone on our front line (they call it the "criss-crossy thing" and think it's much more fun to block air than people).  However, knowing this going into this season will give us ample time to really see how badly we're gonna suck, then how we can trick the opposition to overpursue.  It will take a concerted effort from Ben to get rid of the ball on-time (and he's just so fantastic at making up his mind so fast when he sees the first guy covered... not). 

We know that we're going to have some problems this year.  But the horse is still dead, and we have to walk through this 2009 schedule now.  It is what it is, and you're not gonna stop being a Steeler fan over it. 
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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2009 at 18:25 »

to retort:  don't misconstrue my comments about the current o-line as an endorsement of their underachievement.  I agree that they leave much to be desired, as well as agree on the front office's lacking investments in quality protection for Ben.  Both good points, and both are dead horses.

Don't think it was construed as such; simply unwilling to rationalize the upside that I don't think exists.  Dead horses, granted.

What we have yet to see is what will occur this year.  In fact, we still haven't finalized the roster yet. 

True, but given the FA and draft moves, the options appear, at best, limited.

Conceding the fact that Starks, Kemo, Harting, Colon will start; Stapleton will likely beat out Urbik, at least until the bye week.

Well, maybe.  Urbik could be a gamer, win it outright early.  The real deal ain't who starts this year, but the 2 year window plus.  That's scary, kids, esp. given Max's likeliness of not being a Stiller next, dreadful OT depth, etc.  So many questions, so little time.

This leaves opportunity for guys like Shipley (whose alligator arms will obviously fail him in this league.. but there are some PSU homers here who think he's the shit), Tony Hills, etc.  And all of them suck.   angry4

Actually, I think Q has a 50/50 chance here.  He's either gonna be the ultimate underdog, or measurables will be his undoing.  I'm actually somewhat optimistic: secretly, I had him as my third favorite C behind Wood and Mack, with Unger a guy I wasn't sold on, Luigs not a fit, and Caldwell better than JAG but substantially less than  a Hartings, much less a Dirt or Webby.  He fucking ruled Moala and Maualuga in the nasty bowl loss, but how he matches against the AFCN's Ngata and Rodgers remains to be seen.  In any event, I think he'll be a very, very pleasant surprise.  A scrappy guy, smart (40 Wonderlic), strong (by Indy lifts), and Rimington winner.  His weight's not so far off the top guys', and the only knock then is arm length and height.  Bah.  Q is gonna be the man, mark it.  Not this year, but next. 

Part of the strategy of the game is to determine ways to conceal (as best you can) your weakest points. 

Great teams don't conceal.  They dominate.


I know it's rather hard when you know you can't get an accurate definition of a "stunt" from anyone on our front line (they call it the "criss-crossy thing" and think it's much more fun to block air than people).  However, knowing this going into this season will give us ample time to really see how badly we're gonna suck, then how we can trick the opposition to overpursue.  It will take a concerted effort from Ben to get rid of the ball on-time (and he's just so fantastic at making up his mind so fast when he sees the first guy covered... not). 

Cf., Woody Allen, rationalization > sex. 

We know that we're going to have some problems this year.  But the horse is still dead, and we have to walk through this 2009 schedule now.  It is what it is, and you're not gonna stop being a Steeler fan over it. 

No, actually we're all quitting en masse.  That's what we're getting at.  If any part of the whole, a la the secondary ca. early 2000s, or QB ca. post-Bradshaw to pre-Ben, or OL from 2004-onward, etc. ain't to spec, we're walking.  Rilly.  We mean it.  Rilly rilly mean it.

Part of the fun is questioning the modus, whether we could in actuality keep all the juggled balls aloft better than the FO types or not.  To the point: being great is great, but there's always better.  Two Lombardis in the Oughts, but I'm jonesing for a few more whilst Ben still has legs for legs, and not a crudely affixed wheel for one prosthetic foot, and a sad clown puppet for the other.  Wheeling along, squeaking, clown nose honking with each sad scraping drag of the leg.  Poor Ben.  Damned, doomed.  Just get us more bling, son.  Whatever the cost.
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SCacalaki
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« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2009 at 20:48 »

Wait, what team am I suppossed to be rooting for? 

Or not rooting for?

Will the real SCac please e-stand up?
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Steelerdipwad
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« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2009 at 08:22 »

i read a lot of the posts on here, but i'm hardly ever inclined to post.  but i'm glad i came across y2joyce's post because it is spot on.  consider there is something to be said for the line when only 2 of them started the year in their position.  We'll see how they gel together this year. 


I agree, I was just sassing him for no reason.  In actuality, I find games so much more enjoyable when opposing defensive lines attack the edge with Starks, draw Hartwig away the other side, and then a rusher times his move past Kemo, who stands there looking back and forth with apparently no comprehension that his job is to stop the guy.  That's effin' priceless shit right there.  Hartwig is a huge upgrade to Mahan, so we're cool there, what, 6, 7 sacks allowed, ain't no thang.  Stapleton likewise a huge upgrade over Kendall Simmons, except when he wasn't.  And good gravy, that Millie Colon certainly does a swell job.  They're all swell.  Other teams need, what, like a few months to gel, but give us a few years and we'll really and truly and finally see whether these guys can get their shit together.  Because the past three seasons, it's been a fucking fabulous montage of flashbacks to the Texans so-called line protecting David so-called Carr a few years back.  That shit will never backfire.  Never.  'S'great.  'S'fabulous.  'S'ssssserific.

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the question remains how we are always so darn close to the cap, every year.  we're not overpaying anyone, yet we still can't free cap room.  i don't get it ... when the patsies and eagles (who use trickery... which works) can retain cap room year after year... we can't. 


Well, it couldn't be something as obvious as sinking $16 million into tagging Max Starks the past two years rather than either inking a long-termer or cutting his ass loose.  Cuz we never do stupid deals.  Just ask Jason Gildon.  Or Kendall Simmons. 

We wouldn't have to have this ridiculous discussion of FA OL if the braintrust would actually, oh, I don't know... DRAFT A FUCKING OFFENSIVE LINEMAN more than once a decade.  Of course, Keith Urban is enough to right this ship.  That was really all we needed, thanks for that.  Like going to the ER with a gunshot to the gut, and getting an aspirin.  Whoooooo boy, I feel all better now.

I don't care.  It's only Roethlisberger, for that kind of money he should be obligated to get the shit beat out of him on a weekly basis.  It's his job, and I don't want to hear any complaining.  No whining, as our esteemed Governor says. 


I can't be sure, but methinks you might be a bit sarcastic here. If I didn't have evidence right here that the Steelers have in fact drafted 2 offensive linemen in the first two rounds this decade, I'd be convinced:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3900&type=team
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Finnegans Wake
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« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2009 at 10:21 »

If I didn't have evidence right here that the Steelers have in fact drafted 2 offensive linemen in the first two rounds this decade, I'd be convinced:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3900&type=team


Setting the criterion for premium picks as the first two rounds, you are correct that we drafted two premium OL in this past decade.  Marvel Smith, 2.38, 2000; and Kendall Simmons, 1.30. 2002.  Neither is on the team, but as for actually investing top picks, OK, fine.  Some time ago I broke this down, with the first three rounds examined.  Winners: LB, WR.  Losers: OL, DL.  But that was when fewer teams ran the 3-4 and the DL could be had on the relative cheap.

I think I may have even loaded all the picks by trade value into a SS and showed, points-wise, the shaft the lines have been given.  Rather amazing how much we've put into drafting WRs, but then some of that was overcompensation for not (then) having a franchise QB.  Larger point being, one round one OL per decade is the tip of the iceberg, two in the top two rounds being much the same indicator of neglect.  Hard to argue our successes, but surely someone better was there when we took Colclough and Zo.  Waiting for Bo Lacy and Orien Harris-types to bolster the lines in value rounds has been a stunning success. 

And I think Joel Bell or Gerald Cadogan would have been much better than Sonny Harris or whatsisname the TE late in the draft. 
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Preacherman0
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« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2009 at 13:55 »

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And I think Joel Bell or Gerald Cadogan would have been much better than Sonny Harris or whatsisname the TE late in the draft. 

You'll get no argument from me.  Aside from the insanity of bringing in our obligatory annual TE in the draft--and one who surely would have been available as a FA--we missed numerous chances at linemen who might have helped us throughout R4-UFA.
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