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Author Topic: Science Is in the Details (NY Times)  (Read 1310 times)
jonzr
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« Reply #10 on: Jul 30, 2009 at 14:35 »

It's been a few weeks since I picked that one up, but I'll let you know.

I did finish A Tale of Two Cities over my vacation, very much enjoyed it.  But it took 50+ pages until I felt comfortable with the antiquated language.  When I read the final sentence I thought, "Oh, so that's where that came from."  Most famous first and last sentences?  Enjoyable book, glad I read it.  Doubt I'll be rushing out to read Little Dorrit anytime soon but maybe I'll check out some Dickens in the future, at least the cherry has been popped.

Also read Diary of an Underachiever by I forget who.  It was sort of an autobiography of a guy who never really did that much (that society would recognize as working towards success) other than write the book.  Good read though, the guy can write.

Currently reading The Difference Engine by Gibson and Sterling.  Some good ol' Steampunk.

Not sure when I'll get back to the Dennett, but will let you know how it turns out though it sounds like you probably nailed it.
« Last Edit: Jul 30, 2009 at 14:37 by jonzr » Logged

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pensodyssey
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« Reply #11 on: Jul 31, 2009 at 02:12 »

Quote from: jonzr
And what % of them were even educated at all, I wonder.Quote from: jonzr
How many could even afford to both own a book and eat? Iliad would have required at least four such scrolls.  Plus they were expensive.  Literature, in Athens, was a communal experience, via public readings, visiting speakers, or the numerous dramatic festivals held every year.  

In 17th c Europe, most of the wealthy class would want to have a decent library-- 10 or 20 books, at least--  for display if not intense study.  Also, the priests seemed always to be able to afford both eating and reading in quiet contemplation.  Go figure.

Quote from: jonzr
Religious and/or philosophical texts? Quote from: jonzr
Good analogy, but what did the well educated person read in 5th century Athens and 17th century Europe, what were they educated on?Quote from: jonzr
I suppose it speaks to what was valued then vs today re: education. Certainly, the arts have taken a beating, usually cut from budgets as unnecessary/extravagant.Quote from: jonzr
I think we need science,Quote from: finny
To say nothing of income and job woes.Quote from: finny
I'd be curious to know how posters here would answer that question: "How are you living?"Quote from: finny
Is the essence of art the antithesis of rationalism?

No; but that is a lie commonly attributed to (alternately) Nietszche or Descartes.  I have come to believe that it started when Plato divested the poets of their moral duties.

Quote from: finny
Isn't mystery at the heart of science, religion, and art? Quote from: finny
If modern society is out of balance (Koyaanisnazis!), why doesn't art flourish from some basic human need, a drought of the Dionysian? Quote from: finny
Aren't the institutions of control in our modern world just more evolved versions of those that existed in 5th century Athens or 17th century Europe? (Isn't what separates domesticated dogs of today from those of a thousand years ago just more creature comforts?)History<
Quote
Hasn't there always existed a war between order and wildness, and if it tilted precariously out of balance circa the Industrial Revolution, then shouldn't the book I want to write so badly be about returning that wildness to modern life in ways that defy logical explication?

It should be about time, yes.

Quote from: finny
I'm reminded of a childhood dream...  Perhaps what I apprehended then, at some unfathomably young age, was that like Persephone we are that sun-yellow corn, to have its mortal season in this world.

My dream is one that smells.  I get an odor every now and then. It is at one time comforting and then at another, nauseating.  Been happening for as long as I can remember.




Quote from: jonzr
I did finish A Tale of Two Cities over my vacation, very much enjoyed it. But it took 50+ pages until I felt comfortable with the antiquated language. When I read the final sentence I thought, "Oh, so that's where that came from." Quote from: jonzr
Doubt I'll be rushing out to read Little Dorrit anytime soon but maybe I'll check out some Dickens in the future, at least the cherry has been popped.Tom Jones, Moll Flanders<Pickwick Papers
« Last Edit: Jul 31, 2009 at 02:26 by pensodyssey » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: Jul 31, 2009 at 08:43 »

Quote from: jonzr
I did finish A Tale of Two Cities over my vacation, very much enjoyed it. But it took 50+ pages until I felt comfortable with the antiquated language. When I read the final sentence I thought, "Oh, so that's where that came from."

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« Reply #13 on: Jul 31, 2009 at 12:49 »

Quote from: jonzr
Well, even if you're ridiculing me and I don't even know it ...

Don't think he's ridiculing you, just general Pensoidal smartassery.

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There should be a law of the conservation of happiness and suffering, to parallel the laws concerning matter and energy.

"The tears of the world are a constant quantity. For each one who begins to weep somewhere else another stops. The same is true of the laugh. Let us not then speak ill of our generation, it is not any unhappier than its predecessors. Let us not speak well of it either. Let us not speak of it at all. It is true the population has increased." - Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot

Quote from: pensodyssey
Quote from: pensodyssey
Quote from: pensodyssey
If my law [FW: or Pozzo's Law]<Quote from: pensodyssey
Thucydides (I know you hate the mention of the name, Finny) argues in his History that societies are at their most prosperous when they submit to traditional religious and codified laws, but at the same time have open arguments about the course of action for the state.

I find that formulation very pleasing, and I cannot explain why.

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jonzr
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« Reply #14 on: Jul 31, 2009 at 13:29 »

Damn, I can't hang with this conversation, so I'm gonna stand over there and listen after this.  But how am I living?

Well.  Can't be so loquacious as the findude, but I'd say that my happiness level is mostly consistent. I am content.  Over the last year I've awakened from a stupor that consumed most of my adult life.  Now, I'm in a good place.

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« Reply #15 on: Jul 31, 2009 at 14:03 »

Damn, I can't hang with this conversation...


Yes you can.  You started the damn thing!

Over the last year I've awakened from a stupor that consumed most of my adult life.


That would seriously impede my FF draft strategy.  


This made me think of Basho's death haiku.  There are various translations, with the first line dealing with being sickened while traveling.  The version I'm familiar with continues:  my dreams arose to march again / into hollow lands...  Of course, sometimes death can mean the death of the old. 
« Last Edit: Jul 31, 2009 at 14:16 by Finnegans Wake » Logged

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pensodyssey
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« Reply #16 on: Jul 31, 2009 at 21:50 »

Quote from: finny
Quote from: jonzr
Quote from: finny
Quote from:  pensodyssey

There should be a law of the conservation of happiness and suffering, to parallel the laws concerning matter and energy.
"The tears of the world are a constant quantity. For each one who begins to weep somewhere else another stops. The same is true of the laugh. Let us not then speak ill of our generation, it is not any unhappier than its predecessors. Let us not speak well of it either. Let us not speak of it at all. It is true the population has increased." - Samuel Beckett, Waiting for GodotQuote from: finny
Quote from: finny
I find that formulation very pleasing, and I cannot explain why.

Thucydides has a lot to recommend him.  In the end though, I have to put him down because of his snobbery; for example, he endorses religion as a method of social control while snickering at those who might actually believe such nonsense.  A little too cynical for me.  But he was also an upper-class twit so there you go.

Quote from: finny
Quote from: finny
And I suspect that most Americans, oblivious or impervious to real suffering, would trot out a long list of complaints, invariably predictable by life stage.Quote from: finny
Quote from: finny
I am happy to hear the rain.

More Pound:  The wind is part of the process.  The rain is part of the process.

Quote from: finny
There is the sharp dichotomy of awareness. Of the Zen mind and of, what, the determining factors of lifestyle: of politics, of how much money I have in the bank and how much I will need as time goes on, of the demands of my calendar (taking the car for service, social engagements) and the demands of mundane tasks (gutters need cleaned, front stoop needs repainted), from the big and uncontrollable to the things I can address with my own two hands. The search for meaning amidst all this, and the knowledge that there is meaning every day that is easily overlooked. Life continues to incite curiosity in me. Life is good. Yes, that is all.

Oddly, or not, I came to the same conclusion.  The meaning of life is living.


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