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Author Topic: Sweed Hurt; Timmons reinjures ankle  (Read 4767 times)
JackSplat
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« Reply #50 on: Oct 01, 2009 at 09:26 »

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Maybe if he was more involved he would concentrate more.

Marques Colston comes to mind when i think of what Finny is saying.  dude came out of nowhere and lit up things down in the big easy.  why?  cuz he was targeted often.  I dont remember how Colston was in the first few games out the blocks in 06, but with Brees throwing to him a billion times, the pressure was lessoned quite a bit.

Pressure can affect even the seasoned vet, such as Holmes atm for example.  so with little action coming his way (Sweed), those wide open catches he should be making is probably like catching a medicine ball.

I think the more action he gets, the more high % passes that come his way, we will see a dramatic turn around. 

WR get into grooves just like QBs do
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« Reply #51 on: Oct 01, 2009 at 09:27 »

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In the Bears game, Mendy had THREE fucking carries.  I seriously doubt it's the swollen ego syndrome.

I see that as precisely the problem.  He had three good carries and he's already slacking off in practice?  Not a good sign...and it needed to be stopped right away.  If he's that way over three good plays, how would he be if he was getting real playing time?


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But get him the ball in low-pressure situations first, get him acclimated to catching the rock at game speed, over the middle, short outs, whatever.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.  He's dropped two wide-open, perfectly-thrown passes for touchdowns.  Sunday's catch was tougher because of how he hit the ground, but it was still ridiculous.  Plus, his skill set is more geared towards those kinds of plays.  If he can't catch it when he's wide open down the field, I'm not sure how much I would trust him to hang on when he's over the middle, about to get hit.





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« Reply #52 on: Oct 01, 2009 at 09:37 »

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Maybe if he was more involved he would concentrate more.

Marques Colston comes to mind when i think of what Finny is saying.  dude came out of nowhere and lit up things down in the big easy.  why?  cuz he was targeted often.  I dont remember how Colston was in the first few games out the blocks in 06, but with Brees throwing to him a billion times, the pressure was lessoned quite a bit.

Pressure can affect even the seasoned vet, such as Holmes atm for example.  so with little action coming his way (Sweed), those wide open catches he should be making is probably like catching a medicine ball.

I think the more action he gets, the more high % passes that come his way, we will see a dramatic turn around. 

WR get into grooves just like QBs do

I will agree to disagree as well, but I offer you this as a rebuttal. Colston was catching damn near everything. He earned his spot as a rookie. If he was dropping easy passes for TDs from Brees, he would not have been on the field as often.
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« Reply #53 on: Oct 01, 2009 at 10:06 »

I don't want to sound like a jackass in this discussion, but a borderline first round pick needs to catch the fucking ball regardless of the situation. This guy played for a big-time college program and played in some huge games. He was also on many people's draft boards at the end of the first round. Why all of a sudden does he need to be coddled and thrown 5 yard outs until he's comfortable? Practice catching in practice. And catch the ball when it's thrown to you.
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« Reply #54 on: Oct 01, 2009 at 10:34 »

All I'm saying is, we're ready to call the 2008 a bust -- local media, various fans on various boards -- on the basis of Sweed dropping ONE catch, however catchable, and Mendenhall on fewer carries in a career than he should be getting in a game. 

I really DON'T like how under-used these two guys are, or how they are being used situationally.  But I think it's fucking RIDICULOUS to be able to say with sweeping certitude that either is a washout on such limited data.  If the coaches gave us more looks of both and let them succeed or fail on that basis, then we could have a more informed opinion.  I think both guys have huge potential that is not being tapped, and that fans are writing off.  Sorry.  My opinion.

As for Mendy, I don't think he got a swollen head on the basis of his 3 carries in Chi-town.  If you recall, his first run, he botched the handoff and ran into Ben.  Granted, he powered forward for a couple of yards that FWP never would have, but it may be that he's having trouble with the mental aspect of the game.  From everything I've read about the kid, he's very grounded and not an ego tripper whatsoever. 

I'm getting sick of the Sweed and Mendy ragging.  Think I'll duck out of this for a few weeks and see if they get more looks before I keep sticking up for them and their theoretical potential production. 
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« Reply #55 on: Oct 01, 2009 at 10:46 »

Like it or not folks, Sweed is the future of this receiving corps, and Tomlin is absolutely going about his development the wrong way.  I completely agree with Finny all the way on this.  Sweed is a 2nd year player and he shouldn't have to feel like every ball thrown his way could be his last.  It's ridiculous.  Obviously, he's brought a lot of this on himself, but you can't just hang him out to dry and let him rot on the roster until his rookie contract expires.  You have to make do with what you have and help him get over this mental block.

If Sweed and/or Mendy bust out, the coaching staff has no one to blame but themselves.

Wow.  Um, wow.  I couldn't disagree more.

To me, Sweed has shown nothing<

I couldn't AGREE more AJ. He's got to catch the ball. Maybe if he's all the receiving core has, he gets more of the benefit of the doubt and can make some of these drops, but when you're a second round draft pick out of TEXAS on a team with 2 superbowl MVPs and you're getting out-played (significantly) by a ROOKIE out of Mississippi, you don't get to make these mistakes and continue to play.

Are you really suggesting taking playing time away from Wallace at this point to let Sweed get some reps? Sorry, if I'm the coach, that's never going to happen. Sweed gets to play when we're in 4 wide, and most of the time in that formation, you're going to have to make a big first down catch (or even a TD). You want to get involved in the 1, 2, or 3 wide sets, then you have to earn it (like Wallace has done).

IMO players bust out, coaches don't bust players out (for the most part - including Sweed). You either have it in the NFL or you don't. Some might gain it slower than others (and maybe Sweed will get it eventually), but it's not something that coaches can give you, and until you can do what you're asked to do, you won't get the chance to do other things.
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« Reply #56 on: Oct 01, 2009 at 10:59 »

All I'm saying is, we're ready to call the 2008 a bust -- local media, various fans on various boards -- on the basis of Sweed dropping ONE catch, however catchable, and Mendenhall on fewer carries in a career than he should be getting in a game. 

I really DON'T like how under-used these two guys are, or how they are being used situationally.  But I think it's fucking RIDICULOUS to be able to say with sweeping certitude that either is a washout on such limited data.  If the coaches gave us more looks of both and let them succeed or fail on that basis, then we could have a more informed opinion.  I think both guys have huge potential that is not being tapped, and that fans are writing off.  Sorry.  My opinion.

As for Mendy, I don't think he got a swollen head on the basis of his 3 carries in Chi-town.  If you recall, his first run, he botched the handoff and ran into Ben.  Granted, he powered forward for a couple of yards that FWP never would have, but it may be that he's having trouble with the mental aspect of the game.  From everything I've read about the kid, he's very grounded and not an ego tripper whatsoever. 

I'm getting sick of the Sweed and Mendy ragging.  Think I'll duck out of this for a few weeks and see if they get more looks before I keep sticking up for them and their theoretical potential production. 

Yeah, what he said!  And I STILL think we should give Willie Reid more opportunities to return.

:elbowjab:
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« Reply #57 on: Oct 01, 2009 at 11:26 »

All I'm saying is, we're ready to call the 2008 a bust -- local media, various fans on various boards -- on the basis of Sweed dropping ONE catch, however catchable, and Mendenhall on fewer carries in a career than he should be getting in a game. 

I really DON'T like how under-used these two guys are, or how they are being used situationally.  But I think it's fucking RIDICULOUS to be able to say with sweeping certitude that either is a washout on such limited data.  If the coaches gave us more looks of both and let them succeed or fail on that basis, then we could have a more informed opinion.  I think both guys have huge potential that is not being tapped, and that fans are writing off.  Sorry.  My opinion.

As for Mendy, I don't think he got a swollen head on the basis of his 3 carries in Chi-town.  If you recall, his first run, he botched the handoff and ran into Ben.  Granted, he powered forward for a couple of yards that FWP never would have, but it may be that he's having trouble with the mental aspect of the game.  From everything I've read about the kid, he's very grounded and not an ego tripper whatsoever. 

I'm getting sick of the Sweed and Mendy ragging.  Think I'll duck out of this for a few weeks and see if they get more looks before I keep sticking up for them and their theoretical potential production. 

Yeah, what he said!  And I STILL think we should give Willie Reid more opportunities to return.

:elbowjab:

Fair & funny; Reid was much less accomplished collegiately than these guys, though, and he was much more a roll of the dice. 
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« Reply #58 on: Oct 01, 2009 at 11:40 »

BTW...I'm not ready to label either guy a bust, but I'm also not ready to take time away from people who are producing to give them the time to acclimate to the game. That's what practice is for, and IMO they can earn their time on the field during gameday. Neither of them will be or should be cut, but theirs a difference between not being cut and getting meaningful snaps during games (games that I might add are very important for us to win at this point). I don't think you can judge anyone to be a bust before their third season is over (again there are exceptions, but they are rare).

BTW...my arguments are related to Sweed and not necessarily Mendy...I do think he should be getting more looks on the field, but more from the lack of production of the other RBs than what he has done. I would be giving the same slack to Sweed if there weren't others producing so much better than him.
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« Reply #59 on: Oct 01, 2009 at 12:10 »

The debate is certainly raging about the top two picks in '08. I'm not ready to write either off at this point, and I think the issues with both players are different, but workoutable (prolly not a word). Mendy needs more effing carries. Most RB's need at least 15 carries to start to get into the game, and he has never been allowed, either through injury, or coaches decision, to get into the game. We pretty much don't know how good RM is, or more importantly, could be, because he hasn't played. Give him the rock 15 times a game. Throw to him 3-4 times as well. Then see what he can do.

Sweed's problem is one thing, and one thing only. He simply lacks the confidence to make the splash play. The question is, can he get it back, or is it gone for good? It's not like he can't catch the ball. He was superb in college, and what's frustrating for his teammates, and coaches, is that he catches the ball regularly in practice. I would think, as per Finny, that throwing him some short screens, etc, early in the game to build his confidence would be helpful. Benching him for the rest of the season is not the answer. Should Wallace get more looks? Absolutely. He looks like a 3rd round steal right now. But as bad as he has been at holding onto the ball in the EZ, he has been able to get separation, and gets pretty wide fucking open. That can't be overlooked, or dismissed. Now, I'm obviously operating under the impression that dropping passes is not the disease, but a symptom, namely no confidence. I don't believe he has forgotten how to catch the ball, or has bad hands.

I hope they keep him dressed, because as a 4th wideout, he presents matchup problems. He CAN get open, and I believe he will start to perform better if given the opportunity to get some routine plays under his belt. That being said, if he drops another one, cut his ass!...jk

As a side note, I think SM is a very capable receiver, and is better than Ced was. It is actually a pretty deep WR corps, IMO, and I would have no problem seeing SM out there, because he will make the catch.
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