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Author Topic: Health Care  (Read 3212 times)
pensodyssey
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« on: Mar 22, 2010 at 11:43 »

Love it or loathe it, it is nice to finally see the gubmint get close to getting something done.
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« Reply #1 on: Mar 22, 2010 at 12:14 »

Kind of like going through almost a quarter of football where all the action has been penalties, and finally there's a punt.

'Ooray!
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« Reply #2 on: Mar 22, 2010 at 13:15 »

Love it or loathe it, it is nice to finally see the gubmint get close to getting something done.


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pensodyssey
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« Reply #3 on: Mar 22, 2010 at 17:54 »

Kind of like going through almost a quarter of football where all the action has been penalties, and finally there's a punt.

'Ooray!

Obviously it's not the New Deal (no matter what Hatchet Pelosi says) but think of how damning it would be for Obama next election if he didn't have a single thing to point to as accomplished.  And this is no hill of beans; many a political career has foundered on the rocks of health care, not least of which is Hilary.

From the perspective of avoiding another Carter administration, and the fascist hell which followed, this is very important indeed.
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« Reply #4 on: Mar 23, 2010 at 09:26 »

The bill's neither as good nor as bad as each side says it is. 

Midterms still promise to be brutal for Dems, regardless of passage.  Obama would need a pretty amazing change in the UC rate and a few other chips to fall his way for that not to transpire.  Can't see out to 2012: thought 2010 would look a lot different after the 2008 elections, after all.  But it is an opportunity to learn a valuable lesson in how our government "works!"

We got ideas to us that's dear
Like capitalist, like (socialist)
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« Reply #5 on: Mar 23, 2010 at 11:01 »



"From the perspective of avoiding another Carter administration, and the fascist hell which followed, this is very important indeed."




Heh....not sure I ever heard the 80's referred to as a "fascist hell" before.
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« Reply #6 on: Mar 23, 2010 at 11:15 »

Two sides to every story.

Some felt W's terms were hell; others now think O's are.  All a matter of perspective.                 

The trend towards canonizing Reagan ignores some very serious issues, however.     
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« Reply #7 on: Mar 23, 2010 at 11:18 »

Mike Tomlin told me he plans to unleash fascist hell on all opponents, this season.
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pensodyssey
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« Reply #8 on: Mar 23, 2010 at 11:38 »



"From the perspective of avoiding another Carter administration, and the fascist hell which followed, this is very important indeed."

Heh....not sure I ever heard the 80's referred to as a "fascist hell" before.

Rhetorical overstatement, but not by much.  The 80's were a pretty miserable time culturally speaking, and Reagan gave the Bushies the template for blatantly disregarding the constitution.


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« Reply #9 on: Mar 23, 2010 at 13:47 »

Quote
Insert Quote
Love it or loathe it, it is nice to finally see the gubmint get close to getting something done.

Have to disagree.  I would have been much happier with nothing getting done.  Signing a bill just to "do something" usually does not end well, no matter which side is pushing it through.

Quote
Rhetorical overstatement, but not by much.  The 80's were a pretty miserable time culturally speaking,

As noted, all about perspective I guess.
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bamf16
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« Reply #10 on: Mar 24, 2010 at 07:14 »



"From the perspective of avoiding another Carter administration, and the fascist hell which followed, this is very important indeed."

Heh....not sure I ever heard the 80's referred to as a "fascist hell" before.

Rhetorical overstatement, but not by much.  The 80's were a pretty miserable time culturally speaking, and Reagan gave the Bushies the template for blatantly disregarding the constitution.






Definite rhetoical overstatement.

Culturally how?  And what role does the Constitution prescribe the president playing over cultural issues?

Reagan gave the Bushies a template to disregard the Constitution?  How?  (and let's not kid ourselves here...the Constitution has been blatantly disregarded since the late 1800s.  Some argue it began with Lincoln and suspending Habeas Grabus, er Corpus, but I'll keep the can of worms shut on that debate.  I'm just wondering what template Reagan provided with new ways to disregard the Constitution that differ from Carter's, Nixon's, Johnson's, Kennedy's, Ike's, Truman's, Roosevelt's, etc.) 




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pensodyssey
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« Reply #11 on: Mar 24, 2010 at 09:56 »

Culturally how?  And what role does the Constitution prescribe the president playing over cultural issues?

Did you not notice the "and" in the original sentence?  It's a word often used to link two separate ideas.

Quote
Reagan gave the Bushies a template to disregard the Constitution?  How?  (and let's not kid ourselves here...the Constitution has been blatantly disregarded since the late 1800s.  Some argue it began with Lincoln and suspending Habeas Grabus, er Corpus, but I'll keep the can of worms shut on that debate.  I'm just wondering what template Reagan provided with new ways to disregard the Constitution that differ from Carter's, Nixon's, Johnson's, Kennedy's, Ike's, Truman's, Roosevelt's, etc.)  
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pensodyssey
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« Reply #12 on: Mar 24, 2010 at 10:14 »

Also, I have to agree with Biden that this bill is a fucking big deal.
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« Reply #13 on: Mar 24, 2010 at 11:26 »

Culturally how?  And what role does the Constitution prescribe the president playing over cultural issues?

Did you not notice the "and" in the original sentence?  It's a word often used to link two separate ideas.

Quote
Reagan gave the Bushies a template to disregard the Constitution?  How?  (and let's not kid ourselves here...the Constitution has been blatantly disregarded since the late 1800s.  Some argue it began with Lincoln and suspending Habeas Grabus, er Corpus, but I'll keep the can of worms shut on that debate.  I'm just wondering what template Reagan provided with new ways to disregard the Constitution that differ from Carter's, Nixon's, Johnson's, Kennedy's, Ike's, Truman's, Roosevelt's, etc.)  

Familiar with what "and" means.  Thanks though.

No other president controlled the courts like Reagan did?  FDR?

Illegal foreign policy?  Reagan is the greatest transgressor here? 

The War on Drugs was such an attack on civil liberties that Clinton made the "drug czar" a cabinet position in his first year in office.

FYI:  I'm not a Reagan worshipper.  I'm not part of the movement to put his face on currency, or to carve it on a mountainside.  I'm just curious as to why you hold these seemingly harsh opinions of him when there seem to be others at whom it could be at least partially directed.
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« Reply #14 on: Mar 24, 2010 at 11:33 »

Damn straight it's a big fucking deal.  More Americans now have coverage, insurance companies cannot cancel those troublesome people who file claims, kids can be covered into their 20's.  Yeah, it's a big deal.  My only concern is that it may not go far enough to thwacking the insurance industry, but I'll have to wait and see.

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pensodyssey
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« Reply #15 on: Mar 24, 2010 at 12:00 »



No other president controlled the courts like Reagan did?  FDR?Quote
Illegal foreign policy?  Reagan is the greatest transgressor here?  

Well, no, W. Bush is, but then he had a fine teacher in his daddy, what with all that running money to the Iranis to keep them hostages just a few... months... more.  

Quote
The War on Drugs was such an attack on civil liberties that Clinton made the "drug czar" a cabinet position in his first year in office.Quote
I'm just curious as to why you hold these seemingly harsh opinions of him when there seem to be others at whom it could be at least partially directed.
some semblance of coherent policy, love it or hate it.
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« Reply #16 on: Mar 24, 2010 at 12:18 »

OK, I'm not gonna wade into this latest penso-bamf slugfest except to say that the view looking back at Reagan depends on where you're standing.  What about after 8 years of Clinton vs after 8 years of Dubya? 

Can we blame Reagan for laying the groundwork that would ultimately make it possible to elect a buffoon like Dubya?  Yup.  (Don't even talk to me about how the bastard got reelected.) 

For making it possible to blur the lines between fascism and patriotism?  There used to be a difference in our great country.  For ultimately reducing the civility of our congress and making it possible to elect the lunatic fringe as our representatives?  For said fringe then crying out "Baby killer!" and "Liar!"  For the general mean-spirited stance of the GOP?  For hateful and vile groups like the tea baggers to be taken seriously by some?

Eight years of Clinton left me undecided but after 8 years of Dubya I'd have to say yes:  The Raygun presidency looks worse the further away we get.

On the other hand, this health care thing is something that should make Americans feel proud and happy.

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« Reply #17 on: Mar 24, 2010 at 13:57 »

I would not have voted for the health care bill that was passed Sunday.  However, I am not against reform.  I have yet to hear him say it live, but I've been told that Hannity has referred to U.S. health care as "the best health care system in the world."  For that he should be slugged.

I'm sure everyone has a story of someone they know and love being tormented by the health care debacle in the United States.  My sister worked for Yellow Book in eastern PA.  They didn't provide health benefits until after working there for one year.  Four months into her employment she was doing yoga and thought she had an acorn under her yoga mat.  It was a tumor in her stomach.  Three months later my mother found her in the fetal position in her bedroom in a cold sweat.  The tumor grew to 22 pounds.  On the way to the hospital she said sarcastically to my mother, "only a couple months."

My brother was in college, and on my father's insurance plan when he was life-flighted.  My father got a bill for over 15 grand because the helicopter wasn't approved by the insurance company beforehand.

THIS is the best health care system in the world?!  My problem is that health care reform didn't begin with free market principles.  They were included for vanity's sake.  The insurance industry is an abomination, but I think other reforms should have come before what we have now.

And I think the further we get from time periods in history, the clearer our picture of them.  Some argue it takes 25 years to judge a presidency.  Truman looks better the further we get from him.  JFK better as well.  LBJ looks worse.  Nixon better.  Carter worse.  Even though we're less than 25 years from their exit, I find Reagan better, and Clinton better.  It's going to be fun judging W.  There's a big part of me hoping he lives out his remaining years in grace and while enjoying life.  Because he's at an age where in 25 years his legacy may be trashed just as his life is ending.  It's a sad way to go. 
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« Reply #18 on: Mar 24, 2010 at 23:13 »

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No other president controlled the courts like Reagan did?  FDR?

Barack is an avid ballplayer. Seriously, just bring your cameras out. He'll be there telling jokes and striving to drop "change" on his opponents with his tight shirt neatly tucked into his sweatpants. Like they do in Hawaii.

Quote
Also, I have to agree with Biden that this bill is a fucking big deal.

During the Pens-Caps game tonight they replayed some of the Penguins visit to the White House and Biden said the same thing abooot Sidney Crosby being important.

Quote
Mike Tomlin told me he plans to unleash fascist hell on all opponents, this season.

Give the man some reputation for that. Tremendous.

Quote
Ike's

You guys are like a broken record. How about finding someone else to blame once in a while? It's about teamwork after all.


Quote
My only concern is that it may not go far enough to thwacking the insurance industry, but I'll have to wait and see.

I know that's not your only concern. Can't be. Also going to thwack small businesses as well but I'll also have to wait and see

Quote
My original point was that the health care bill might help Obama avoid the one-term abortion that was the Carter admin, and the moral majority reaction(aryism) that followed.
It's going to be fun judging W.  There's a big part of me hoping he lives out his remaining years in grace and while enjoying life.
Hey at least one abortion Obama has prevented. Terribly probably the only. Adverbly. Carter ran a slick campaign as did liberal americ...the Obama crew. Let's hope this bill helps to separate them in a positive light.

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« Reply #19 on: Mar 24, 2010 at 23:27 »

 
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It's going to be fun judging W.  There's a big part of me hoping he lives out his remaining years in grace and while enjoying life.

W bishes Obama at throwing a baseball.

Don't worry about W he'll be galavanting around Texas shooting boar in the bush, occasionally one of Cheney's buddies in the face "just kiddin", or the general BS (its secret code...means bull shit) with his mates. W will be snorting coke off of one of Josh Hamilton's babes midriff and then telling Chuck Norris to do "some dem karate tricks!".

Easy to make fun of the guy. But at least he got the thing over the plate and didn't bounce it in there like Obama in his ChiSox coat and Saved by the Bell jeans.

Sure it was the best moment of his presidency but it was still balls throwin that steeerike.

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« Reply #20 on: Mar 24, 2010 at 23:33 »

Y2J
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Really?  Me too.
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« Reply #21 on: Mar 25, 2010 at 16:30 »

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