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Author Topic: Holmes given away to Jets?  (Read 2597 times)
msdmnr2002
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« on: Apr 11, 2010 at 23:01 »

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5077088

Report that Santonio to Jets for a 5th rounder.

OK, he's got off field issues that brings down his value.  But he's a first round pick and has played well enough to deserve it.  And he's just hitting his prime.  A fifth?  Really?  That's the best you can get? What's that, # 160 or so?  Yeah, you'll find equivalent value with that pick.

Maybe something is better than nothing, but to save face I might just have cut him.

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« Reply #1 on: Apr 11, 2010 at 23:17 »

Apparently, Limas Sweed has shown up to offseason OTAs in the best shape of his career.
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« Reply #2 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 00:58 »

So we got a draft pick in exchange for a player who wasn't part of our future plans to begin with? I have no problem with that.
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« Reply #3 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 01:47 »

Wow. I would have liked to have seen him resigned long term, but with all of his off-the-field stuff that was getting less likely with each passing day.

The future of this WR corps isn't looking too bright unless something just clicks for Sweed this year. Yikes.
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« Reply #4 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 04:29 »

Should have held on to Holmes this year, let him walk via UFA and get a 3rd/4th comp pick

He was an idiot but was becoming pretty clutch....better than Ward last year IMO

Impending FA made a 2nd round pick out of the question IMO and I read on PFT.com the other day that Holmes may be facing a 4 game suspension, so if true, that knocks a 3rd rounder out of the question. 

So I guess it comes down to could the Steelers have received a 4th rounder?Huh?

Very surprising news.  I knew Holmes Tweet'd some stupid stuff but hope he wasn't the fall guy for a tumultuous offseason, as his off-field issues seemed far less likely than Ben's
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« Reply #5 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 07:03 »

No worries.

DJF told me that Holmes was washed up.

And my toothless 7 year old says Mike Wallace is "way better".
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« Reply #6 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 07:09 »

Pisspoor value management by the FO.  They can't get a fucking bag of Doritos for Holmes?  I'd have let him play out here, have him walk, and get a R3 comp when he signed his new deal.  In short, they're getting one year less (12 games, maybe) and a round or two lower in return value than they should have.  Yeah.

Well, WR just crashed into our draft needs, unless they think El is the dude.  Worse combos than Ward, Wallace, and El; younger, and better, too.
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« Reply #7 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 07:54 »

Maybe there are circumstances we don't know about.  But I don't think he'd have been a UFA but an RFA instead.  Seems like with the expiring of the players union deal a guy needs 6 years to be a UFA. 

Albeit, a 5th does sound rather paltry - Holmes was no Troy Edwards.
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« Reply #8 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 08:03 »

+ Leon Washington?
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« Reply #9 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 08:12 »

Seriously, we should have gotten a player back with a fifth, or a third at abso-fucking-lute worst.  Washington, or a lineman. 

Steelers FO panicked, bottom line, and threw Stonio overboard.  I'm not thrilled with the Ben and Stone offseason circus, but you know what?  You work in the front office, you work in value.  Colbert has had some good drafts, but he can't jack shit for any Steeler, ever, period. 

Stonio for a R5, but a R7 for Sean Mahan?  And the Jets gave up a R3 and R5, a WR and a LB for Limas Sweed Braylon Edwards?  Dallas gave up a R1 and R3 for Roy effin Williams?

Pisspoor.

Yay.  We sent a massage to Ben.
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« Reply #10 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 08:20 »

From the comments of the article:

Quote
this trade opens up for BIGTIME receiver Limas Sweed to step into the starting lineup! either that or Antwaan Randle El will be starting again

*snicker*
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« Reply #11 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 08:21 »

'thats how you be great'

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« Reply #12 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 08:23 »

Hard to tell if +Leon is part of the deal.  Seeing rumors yes and no.  Makes more sense if so.
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« Reply #13 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 08:28 »

Why the Jets...why?  They are going to be stacked this year.  I am just pissed at our FO.  This is by far the worst personel move in Steelers history.  


Worley showed promise in his rookie season, amassing 770 yards rushing and 5 touchdowns on 195 carries. His production fell off his second season, however, as he earned only 418 yards and no touchdowns. He was injured for most of the 1991 NFL season, and was suspended the following year from the NFL due to missing two mandatory drug tests.[5] The Steelers traded Worley to the Bears in 1993 for a fifth-round draft pick.
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« Reply #14 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 08:29 »

WHAT THE FUCKY FUCK?

Did I miss the story that 'Tone kinfed a guy?

Are we going to trade every guy that gets accused of something? Accused, mind you. This case seemed to have no merit.

Or did we trade him because of.....tweets? Sorry, but I pretty much assume that 2/3 of the players in the NFL are dimwits whose opinions I'd flat-out be embarassed to learn. But I don't judge them for that, because that's not their job. Their job, which required such a commitment of time that it's no surprise that most of them couldn't tweet anything that wasn't dim-witted.

We got nothing for a Pro Bowl quality receiver. This is bullshit. Our passing game now depends on Wallace's continued progression and productivity, which, by the way, is hardly guaranteed. Randle El was never a good receiver. Now he's close to washed up. Ward, I think, will be productive this year, but beyond that is anybody's guess. Depth is zero.

Is Ben next? He allegedly has been raping his way across the United States for the last 15 months.
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« Reply #15 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 08:53 »

I guess this changes our draft plans
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« Reply #16 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 09:08 »

Someone here said he was gonna be suspended for four games for substance violation, anyone else seen that? I dunno, seems to me we should have gotten something for him. That said, I hope it send a statement that we are not the Bengals and Ravens when it comes to putting up with off the field behavior....I mean, other than our QB.
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« Reply #17 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 09:12 »

I guess this changes our draft plans

Not necessarily.  ARE is around again for depth.  Wallace should move up the depth chart for sure.  And you gotta figure they're always looking for WR talent on day 2 (day 3?).

I don't think this makes WR a R1-4 concern and if it does then this was a huge FO gaff.  I bet they use the 5th rounder and draft a "tall WR for Big Ben."

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« Reply #18 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 09:26 »

Not to defend a bad deal, but the woman-drinky-glass throwing incident is only icing on the cake for Stonio.  He's facing a four game suspension, and next time he pisses THC or fails to piss on demand, he's out for a year.  On top of that, it's a contract year, so he would have left for bigger money anyway.  Steelers apparently wanted to make a show of cleaning house, and to deal with the devil they do know than the one they don't.  Again, not that I agree, but if Stonio is only here for 12 games and then is gone, combined with what some say is a bad clubhouse attitude, then maybe desperation overtook Colbert.  

Ben's deal is an 8-year deal running through 2016, IIRC.  

"He's a Steeler and he'll always be a Steeler," team chairman Dan Rooney said, when the deal was inked.

Word is Goodell is meeting with Ben today, but most analysts believe that without criminal charges, this will amount to little more than a warning session.  Holmes, OTOH, is fighting criminal charges.   The significance here is that a 4-game substance suspension sould turn into a longer furlough if Goodell lowers the boom with the criminal charges going through.  IMO it's quite possible Stonio misses most or all of the season, with the two pot dings and the assault charge.  IF that is the case, then the Steelers got value now, equivalent to a R4 comp next year (or slightly better), which might not be guaranteed if Stones missed most of 2010 with the various suspensions.  He might have signed a lower deal that got us a R5 comp in 2011, which is even more shitty.

Once we see how the suspension issues parse out, this might not be as crappy as it seems.  Unless you're a Jet fan.  

Leon Washington NOT part of the deal, BTW.
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« Reply #19 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 09:38 »

They've been lining up a lot of top WR talent: Arrelious Benn, "Black and" Golden Tate... IIRC, also Andre Roberts from the Citadel (great Senior Bowl week) and Joe "Dragnet" Webb (QB for UAB, converting to WR like... crap, a couple of WRs I can't remember now), who is a massive dude with nice upside. 

That runs the gamut of late R1-R4 or R5.  Draft options:

*Trade back from 1.18 for Benn or Tate, both of whom I think would flourish here.  Possibly trade back up into R3 or R2 with some lower picks.
*See if the El & Sweed combo does anything, and roll the dice later.  If El is our WR3 and Wallace is the new WR2, there's little pressure on Sweed.  But he'll have to show us NOW that he can catch in game situations, so no pressure, but now or never, if that makes sense.  You take a guy you like later, like Webb, and use R1-3 for best value in need areas (primarily on D). 
*Hope for Roberts to be there R3 as BPA.

If Dez Bryant falls, I don't think I'd take him.  I keep seeing the Randy Moss comparisons on 212, but I'm not buying it.  He's a diva, more Ocho than Moss.  Tate is a solid, steady guy with surprising speed but needs to clean up his routes, maybe in the mold of Ward best case or NYG Steve Smith worst case.  Benn looks like a better pro than collegiate IMO, bad scenario in Illinois, and the comparison I like is Anquan Boldin.  Andre Roberts is a little like Greg Jennings.  Joe Webb is harder to peg, Ward comparisons are easy but he might be more like Antonio Gates as a WR best case. Still, hard to tell how much upside he has at this point.

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« Reply #20 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 09:39 »

So is it Stonio, Sanstonio or San Anstonio?

Maybe in the long run we will all applaud this decision

Really wish that kid would have grown up, is it true he twittered he was going to "wake and bake"?
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« Reply #21 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 10:00 »

Quote
Really wish that kid would have grown up, is it true he twittered he was going to "wake and bake"?

I think that was Penstonio.
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« Reply #22 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 10:30 »

7-9 in 2010.
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« Reply #23 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 10:36 »

The more I think about this, the less I'm pissed at Colbert and the more I'm pissed at Stone.

12 games is the MAX he could've played for us, but coupled with the assault, I'm guessing Goodell suspends him most or all of the season.  So he'd be taking up a 2010 roster spot, and gone in 2011 free agency?  What good is that?  

If the FO contacted most of the other teams in the league, they doubtless knew of the potential suspension issues.  Jets are rolling the dice that Stonesie will be reborn in 2011, or come out on the light side of the suspension issue.

We're just not willing to gamble on that.



Holmes is a dick.
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« Reply #24 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 10:38 »

Nah..we bounce back and get focussed

11-5

Lose in AFC Championship to....

Gov. Schwarzenegger - Go Chargers Go
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« Reply #25 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 11:36 »

What's particularly weird is that I had been thinking about the Steelers longterm~ish options at WR lately...for some ungodly reason. 

Anyway, one of the things that was kicking around in my head was a straight up deal to Cincy for...Chad Johnson.  Ocho is going into a contract year and has been kinda unhappy with his contract sitch.  He might be a prima donna; he might be a cocky prick, but the dude still has skills.  And, at least he didn't get in trouble with da law.  At least, not that I can recall.  Pretty sure he would've loved the op to play for the team that has pwned his ass for the better part of his career.

While Tone was my boy, I honestly didn't see him singing longterm, so why not ship him out now and get something for him in return?  Little did I know that his market value was so low.

Going forward, if there's even the slightest consideration of using their '10 R1 on another WR, I give RFA Brandon Marshall's agent a ring and try to work out a 4 or 5 year deal with him.  He wants to win.  He wants to be on a contender.  And, he wants a bigtime QB that can get him the ball.  Check, check and uh...check, I think.  They would lose their R1, but they significantly upgrade the WR position and besides, their R1 WR picks don't seem to hang around for much more than 3 or 4 years anyway.

Oh, and FWIW, I better not hear any '10 plan that includes ARE being a part of the starting lineup.
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« Reply #26 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 11:47 »

Not thrilled with getting Ocho or Marshall, for various reasons.  I'd rather do what we do best: draft & develop (Sweed excepted).  Really want to see Wallace take off as a S/E this season, and can't see ARE getting a ton of action.  If Sweed puts it together and we get a guy at some point in the draft, WR may be less dire than it seems now.  But with the Holmes contract year and Ward's age, WR was definitely an event horizon draft-wise.
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« Reply #27 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 11:58 »

What did we learn from all this?

Never, ever buy a #10 replica.
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« Reply #28 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 14:42 »

They've been lining up a lot of top WR talent: Arrelious Benn, "Black and" Golden Tate... IIRC, also Andre Roberts from the Citadel (great Senior Bowl week) and Joe "Dragnet" Webb (QB for UAB, converting to WR like... crap, a couple of WRs I can't remember now), who is a massive dude with nice upside. 

That runs the gamut of late R1-R4 or R5.  Draft options:

*Trade back from 1.18 for Benn or Tate, both of whom I think would flourish here.  Possibly trade back up into R3 or R2 with some lower picks.
*See if the El & Sweed combo does anything, and roll the dice later.  If El is our WR3 and Wallace is the new WR2, there's little pressure on Sweed.  But he'll have to show us NOW that he can catch in game situations, so no pressure, but now or never, if that makes sense.  You take a guy you like later, like Webb, and use R1-3 for best value in need areas (primarily on D). 
*Hope for Roberts to be there R3 as BPA.

If Dez Bryant falls, I don't think I'd take him.  I keep seeing the Randy Moss comparisons on 212, but I'm not buying it.  He's a diva, more Ocho than Moss.  Tate is a solid, steady guy with surprising speed but needs to clean up his routes, maybe in the mold of Ward best case or NYG Steve Smith worst case.  Benn looks like a better pro than collegiate IMO, bad scenario in Illinois, and the comparison I like is Anquan Boldin.  Andre Roberts is a little like Greg Jennings.  Joe Webb is harder to peg, Ward comparisons are easy but he might be more like Antonio Gates as a WR best case. Still, hard to tell how much upside he has at this point.



I'm with ya on Benn, but I'm not a big fan of Tate, and neither of us is a big fan of Dez B, who looks like a suspension waiting to happen IMO.
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« Reply #29 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 15:35 »

no Dez ....
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« Reply #30 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 15:39 »

I may have glossed over it here but PG reports that the Steelers were ready to release Holmes prior to getting the 5th

That explains the 5th and the Jets.  There wasn't a full field pushing for Holmes so they took what they could get.  Musta been in the pipeline that he was out at least 4 games and subsequently nobody was interested in takiing that hit (cough, cough)

Pushing the off-field stuff aside, it really sucks to lose a talent like Holmes.  That said, he certainly was worth the pick with the SB grab IMO.  I'll put up with the time-after-tmie of off-field stuff for the sake of his EZ catch.  I'll always think well of the guy.

That said, he's nearing destruction IMO.  The weed stuff aside, the "kill ur self" isn't for the Rooneys and their fan base.  My guess is a more vindictive and vicious backlash in a bigger city like NY where minor letdowns become front page news.

It'll be tough to get a WR better than Holmes; almost certainly for 2010 and possibly beyond.  Thank goodness for Mike Wallace and his year last year.  Hopefully projects forward and better.

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« Reply #31 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 15:48 »

Sweed with a break out year....46 catches (22 Drops) 9 TD's 924 yards. 
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« Reply #32 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 18:31 »

Yay.  We sent a massage to Ben.

I know this was made in jest, but I've been hearing this same phrase all over the radio and talk shows locally and think its nothing but crap.  I dont think Holmes gives two shits that he isnt a Steeler anymore.  Its not like he was traded to the lions with no hopes of championships.  He was traded to a playoff team and will still get his coin.  the price to pay? 4 games without any pay.  whooptie freakin doo!

It would be no different for Ben if he has any other transgressions.

A year long suspension for Holmes THIS year would be the only saving grace from this trade.

"God Bless"
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« Reply #33 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 18:32 »

Sweed with a break out year....46 catches (22 Drops) 9 TD's 924 yards. 

Overdue for the yearly with the neurologist?
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« Reply #34 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 19:42 »

Yay.  We sent a massage to Ben.

I know this was made in jest, but I've been hearing this same phrase all over the radio and talk shows locally and think its nothing but crap.  I dont think Holmes gives two shits that he isnt a Steeler anymore.  Its not like he was traded to the lions with no hopes of championships.  He was traded to a playoff team and will still get his coin.  the price to pay? 4 games without any pay.  whooptie freakin doo!

It would be no different for Ben if he has any other transgressions.

A year long suspension for Holmes THIS year would be the only saving grace from this trade.

"God Bless"

Holmes is playing 12 games MAX.  He's still got the resurgent assault case against him and concomitant additional games lost.  Goodell is looking at pot, pot again, and assault...  If the assault thing doesn't fold, he's losing half a season minimum.  And it could go longer than that.  Not to mention the fact that another pot snare takes Stonio out an entire year.

I'm putting the o/u on suspensions in 2010 at 6 for Stones, and 2 for Benny.
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« Reply #35 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 21:10 »

I guess with a day to reflect and reading opinions here it wasn't the worst trade ever.  Off field stuff and pending suspension severely hampered his value.  Still wonder if they could have fished a little more before they pulled the trigger, but draft day is coming up fast.

Just worried about what I thought was one of the more solid positions on the team.  Ward can't hold off Father Time forever.  Wallace hopefully will improve, but with Holmes off the field he will get a lot more attention.  Heat has to be counted on much more this year; maybe that's a blessing in disguise.  After that, not a lot to count on.

Outside the box answer makes me think that if Spiller is available (unlikely), he might help in this area.  Not a true WR, but he made several downfield catches, and could split him out as a deep threat.  Plus if he catches it underneath in space he'll run forever.  Plus adds to return and running game.
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« Reply #36 on: Apr 12, 2010 at 23:24 »

Quote
I'm putting the o/u on suspensions in 2010 at 6 for Stones, and 2 for Benny.

I'm thinking 1 game for Ben and its the FO handing it out and not the commish.  I could see Goodell allowing the Steelers to get a little of their image back that way.

Holmes got one game for actually breaking the law with herbage in his car where as Ben had sex in a 5 foot bathroom with some drunk chick.

God Bless!
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« Reply #37 on: Apr 13, 2010 at 12:49 »

Now that SanAntonio is living and playing in NYC, there's going to be many distractions that will test his willpower not to mention dealing with the 20 news pages per day microscoping his every little move .  5-1 he shoots himself in the leg while simultaneously throwing a drink at himself and reaching for a blunt in Jay-Z's club.
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« Reply #38 on: Apr 13, 2010 at 15:24 »

I'll take Tonio, Burress, and Ben if the dead pool ever comes alive.
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Looks like you've been missing a lot of work lately.
I wouldn't say I've been *missing* it, Bob.
pensodyssey
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« Reply #39 on: Apr 13, 2010 at 19:14 »

Now that SanAntonio is living and playing in NYC, there's going to be many distractions that will test his willpower not to mention dealing with the 20 news pages per day microscoping his every little move .  5-1 he shoots himself in the leg while simultaneously throwing a drink at himself and reaching for a blunt in Jay-Z's club.

I have read exactly two articles about the trade since it happened, one in the Daily News and one in the Post.  Both decried the trade from a Jets standpoint.  They're afraid Holmes will upset their locker room "chemistry'. 
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A shabby Charlie Brown.
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Have a cup o' joe.


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« Reply #40 on: Apr 13, 2010 at 20:25 »

Now that SanAntonio is living and playing in NYC, there's going to be many distractions that will test his willpower not to mention dealing with the 20 news pages per day microscoping his every little move .  5-1 he shoots himself in the leg while simultaneously throwing a drink at himself and reaching for a blunt in Jay-Z's club.

I have read exactly two articles about the trade since it happened, one in the Daily News and one in the Post.  Both decried the trade from a Jets standpoint.  They're afraid Holmes will upset their locker room "chemistry'. 

What, like he prefers the Afghani but they like the Cali green?  Now that's something to upset a locker room.

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