Is there really any point?

[Preacherman0]

Listening to Mike and Mike this morning, talking about Phirip Livers being in a category above Ben Roethlisberger.

It's barely even worth the argument anymore.

You'll take a guy who has never even been to a SB over a guy who has been there three times? 

[Finnegans Wake]

I know.  Heard it, doesn't even bother me any more.  They made some good points on Ben re: hot reads and getting rid of the tater faster, but conceded that sometimes his gambles pay off in big completions.  There are certainly very good points to be made for Manning, Brady, Ben, Brees, Rodgers, and Rivers, but every critic has their own criteria.  Most of the T∀lking He∀ds are looking at passing stats, moreso than wins, situational ability, postseason performance, scrambling ability, etc.

Of course, they specifically referenced Rivers's YPA, when among active QBs, three are tied at 8.0:  Ben, Rivers, and Romo.  That pretty datum was soundly ignored.

I think the bottom line is it comes down to passing yards and passing TDs for most of these guys, so to be "elite" you need 4000+ and 30+, give or take.  Anything more nuanced is simply white noise.  (Note:  Ben leads both Rivers and Rodgers in career yardage, but whatevs.) (PPS:  Ben leads both Rivers and Rodgers in career passing TDs, but whatevs for realz!)

You go through category by category, and break down the stats, and Ben's not as bad as the T∀lking He∀ds think.  Add in postseason mojo, and, well, you know.

[Joetorious]

I don't understand anyone's love affair with Rivers. When they were being drafted, I was hoping like crazy that Roethlisberger would be available and the Steelers would take Roethlisberger over Rivers (and Manning and, of course, Losman). In other words, I was hoping every team would pick the way they did, and that the Steelers would not trade up for Manning or Rivers.

That said, I do like the way Rivers saves his body abuse and the team some yards by throwing the ball away when there's nothing in the cards.

[Joetorious]

That pretty datum

Pretty Datum would be a cool hipster band name, and "That Pretty Datum" would be a nice album title.

[Finnegans Wake]

That pretty datum

Pretty Datum would be a cool hipster band name, and "That Pretty Datum" would be a nice album title.

$37 buys you the rights...

[Gnutella]

Regarding "hot reads": Half the time I've see Ben attempt them, the WRs have been off in la-la land, whether they're failing to break off their routes or just not looking for the ball.

[jonzr]

Regarding "hot reads": Half the time I've see Ben attempt them, the WRs have been off in la-la land, whether they're failing to break off their routes or just not looking for the ball.

True dat.  But maybe it was b/c they were so unexpected.

[Finnegans Wake]

Regarding "hot reads": Half the time I've see Ben attempt them, the WRs have been off in la-la land, whether they're failing to break off their routes or just not looking for the ball.

True dat.  But maybe it was b/c they were so unexpected.

Also, could be the age of the WRs, or when Holmes was here, his being all high and shit.

[Gnutella]

Regarding "hot reads": Half the time I've see Ben attempt them, the WRs have been off in la-la land, whether they're failing to break off their routes or just not looking for the ball.

True dat.  But maybe it was b/c they were so unexpected.

I don't buy that as much of an excuse. Ben's telling the WRs in the huddle to be prepared to adjust if there's a blitz, but if the WRs don't detect a blitz, then they won't adjust, and that's when things go wrong. Maybe it's not Ben who hasn't been reading the defenses properly, but the WRs.

Also, could be the age of the WRs, or when Holmes was here, his being all high and shit.

You know, back in 2009 when Holmes contributed to a "pick-six" and a loss to the Bengals because of his carelessness, my first thought was, "Are you high or something? Way to not pay any attention whatsoever and make your QB look bad in the process!"