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Author Topic: Steelers' 2011 MVP  (Read 1304 times)
Preacherman0
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« on: Oct 09, 2011 at 16:08 »

Could end up being Max Starks.

Brilliantly, and shockingly, Ben and Arians seemed more intent to actually get rid of the ball.

Finally:
Farewell, Sir Mendenhall, we hardly knew ye.  Methinks it is time to gather thy tweets and depart.

Honestly, Dwyer and Red look like the real deal in the running game.
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« Reply #1 on: Oct 09, 2011 at 17:11 »

Right.  Because Tennessee spent so much time game planning for Dwyer.  And the fake punt.  Should Sepulveda be our new quarterback?
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otismalibu
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« Reply #2 on: Oct 09, 2011 at 20:18 »

There's no way Mendenhall gets anywhere near 49 yds. if he gets Redman's 15 carries. Maybe half that. And no fumbles from #33 who was getting quite a bit of contact.

Dwyer didn't look like anything special, except for that one run, with a hole so big I think Walter Hudson could have picked up 30 yds.
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kluisi61
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« Reply #3 on: Oct 10, 2011 at 05:19 »

Right.  Because Tennessee spent so much time game planning for Dwyer.  And the fake punt.  Should Sepulveda be our new quarterback?

I don't think we'll be getting rid of Mendenhall because he is our best back when the holes are there, but I do think that Redman is our best option behind this O-Line. How much game planning do you really have to do for a RB really. They get the hand off and run to the hole. Follow your keys (usually the O-linemen) as a linebacker and you either make the tackle or you don't. Most of the time yesterday they couldn't tackle Redman even when they were in position to do so.

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« Reply #4 on: Oct 10, 2011 at 09:19 »



Brilliantly, and shockingly, Ben and Arians seemed more intent to actually get rid of the ball.

I LOVE how Arians hasn't calleda roll-out play for Roethlisberger until he has a really bad foot injury.  Play worked for a TD, but he is the dumbest fucking idiot in the NFL.  Besides Martz, I guess.
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« Reply #5 on: Oct 10, 2011 at 14:57 »

My vote goes to the three-step drop. And Redman.
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« Reply #6 on: Oct 10, 2011 at 15:07 »



Brilliantly, and shockingly, Ben and Arians seemed more intent to actually get rid of the ball.

I LOVE how Arians hasn't calleda roll-out play for Roethlisberger until he has a really bad foot injury.  Play worked for a TD, but he is the dumbest fucking idiot in the NFL.  Besides Martz, I guess.

It's Arians' "Play to your weaknesses" school of coaching.
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Preacherman0
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« Reply #7 on: Oct 10, 2011 at 20:42 »

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Right.  Because Tennessee spent so much time game planning for Dwyer.  And the fake punt.  Should Sepulveda be our new quarterback?

Yeah, we have a decent rushing performance, let's just blow it off as dumb luck.

I've said for a while that Redman needs the ball more, and Dwyer's performance is still a positive.  At least neither one of them turned tail and ran instead of going forward.

I doubt we'll just cut Mendenhall, at least this season.  But there is no denying that the Steelers ran the ball significantly better last week and this week while he was on the bench.

Arians is still a douche.  But at least they were using more quick release passes than they've used all season.  Just sayin.
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« Reply #8 on: Oct 10, 2011 at 22:30 »

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Right.  Because Tennessee spent so much time game planning for Dwyer.  And the fake punt.  Should Sepulveda be our new quarterback?

Yeah, we have a decent rushing performance, let's just blow it off as dumb luck.

We didn't have a decent rushing performance, we had one great run.  Take away the 76 yarder, and Dwyer's carries were about 4 per, and the team's about 3.5.  What we had was a great passing performance.
  
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« Reply #9 on: Oct 11, 2011 at 06:24 »

Penso is clearly a Twitter follower of #34.
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« Reply #10 on: Oct 11, 2011 at 09:34 »

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Right.  Because Tennessee spent so much time game planning for Dwyer.  And the fake punt.  Should Sepulveda be our new quarterback?

Yeah, we have a decent rushing performance, let's just blow it off as dumb luck.

We didn't have a decent rushing performance, we had one great run.  Take away the 76 yarder, and Dwyer's carries were about 4 per, and the team's about 3.5.  What we had was a great passing performance.
  

4 ypc is better than the -1/-2 ypc Mendenhall seems to produce on an all-too-frequent basis. He blows, dude. If he requires a gaping hole to be useful, he won't be too useful for at least another two or three years (assuming the FO actually - gasp - tries to address the OL through the draft and FA).
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« Reply #11 on: Oct 11, 2011 at 09:53 »

I'm going with kluisi on this one.  While switching to Redman was a much-needed spark, it's no coincidence that the running game was suddenly more effective with Starks back.  And I'll say this:  Legs can be the LG permanently as well.  He had a key block on Dwyer's 76 yarder, and didn't get lost the way Kemo does.  He and Starks worked extremely well together.

You put Mendy behind that line and he'd feel like it was his birthday with all those lanes wide open.

BTW, Starks got game ball.

Never knew how much I missed that guy.
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« Reply #12 on: Oct 11, 2011 at 10:02 »

BTW, Starks got game ball.

Never knew how much I missed that guy.

I thought his release was a mistake - an overreaction to his weight.  Hell, it was the off season and he had surgery, he's not a CB for fuck sake.  Now, there might have been a bit of cap fixin' in there too.  But it was damn near criminal to start with the line they had.
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« Reply #13 on: Oct 11, 2011 at 11:00 »

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I thought his release was a mistake - an overreaction to his weight.  Hell, it was the off season and he had surgery, he's not a CB for fuck sake.  Now, there might have been a bit of cap fixin' in there too.  But it was damn near criminal to start with the line they had.

I think it was mostly about the cap, but after Baltimore I'd have given him a call.  Maybe we'd be 4-1 if we had.
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« Reply #14 on: Oct 11, 2011 at 11:45 »

I dunno.

Colbert had NO problem throwing money after vets this offseason.

And I kept waiting and waiting for them to (at least) call up one of Flo or Max, because it seemed insane to go into the season with Scott, Colon, and Gilbert as the only OTs.  Essex was a later add, and really, did we pay any less for him than Max?

Maybe Max thought he could wring a bit more out of Minnie and got caught between two teams trying to get by on the cheap.
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« Reply #15 on: Oct 11, 2011 at 12:34 »

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I thought his release was a mistake - an overreaction to his weight.  Hell, it was the off season and he had surgery, he's not a CB for fuck sake.  Now, there might have been a bit of cap fixin' in there too.  But it was damn near criminal to start with the line they had.

I think it was mostly about the cap...

I assumed that as well.  Although, I thought he was a cap casualty that would resing with the team at a discounted rate within a week if someone else didn't throw a bunch of cash at him.  The fact that he got only minimal interest and was still unemployed over a month into the season is amazing; that Pittsburgh didn't sing him earlier is mind bottling.
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« Reply #16 on: Oct 11, 2011 at 13:44 »

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The fact that he got only minimal interest and was still unemployed over a month into the season is amazing; that Pittsburgh didn't sing him earlier is mind bottling.

That surprised me too; made me think the Steelers maybe made the right move - until he actually played, thankfully in our uniform.  That said...


OF CORSE MACK STARZ IS AN ENVY PEE!!111  LOOK AT ARE WRECKERD LASTE YEER WITHOUT "BIG" BEN ROODLESBORGER WEE WERE 3 AND WUN AND ALMORST 4 OH!!111  WITHOUT MACK WER TWO BY TOO!111  AND ANOTHER THINGK "BIG" BEN IS A JOKE U THENK HE BIG LOOK AT MAXK HEE SOO BIG THAT BIG IS SMALL NEST TO HEME!111  THANKS THE GOODS WE HAVE STARZE BACK NOW WEE R BACK TOO THE BEWL FER SUR !!111
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« Reply #17 on: Oct 11, 2011 at 17:28 »

MDSPRN OR WHATEVR YORE AN IDOT ITS CLEER DWIRE IS OUR MOSSED VALABULE PLAER UMM HELLLOOO 7 6YARDS RUN LESSEE MARX STACKS RUN THAT FAR MEMDAHAUL RETMIN BIC PEN ALL OR NOTHINK WITHOUT DWEIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
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« Reply #18 on: Oct 12, 2011 at 17:00 »

As a postscript to this thread, from today's p-g:

"But it was not a dominant performance Sunday.  Other than the 76-yard run by Dwyer, the backs managed just 80 yards on their other 25 carries, an average of 3.2 yards per carry and no touchdowns.  Had Redman's 49 yards on 15 carries been accomplished by Mendenhall, it might have been viewed rather differently than celebrated.

Wide receivers Antonio Brown (10 yards) and Mike Wallace (8 )combined for 18 yards on their two carries."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11285/1181374-66-0.stm

Forgot about those wr carries.  3.2 per sounds very Mendenhallian after all.


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« Reply #19 on: Oct 12, 2011 at 18:13 »

Check out this nice breakdown of the Dwyer run.

Mendenhall would have scored if he had that to run through.

Still and all, take the improvements.  And Redman did carve out positives where Mendy would have been stifled, IMO.  They're both talented backs but tailored to different situations.  Dwyer though surprised me.  Did a nice job as a COP.  Now, Redman as your 1 and Mendy as COP, with Dwyer getting 5 carries as the wild card? 
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« Reply #20 on: Oct 12, 2011 at 19:32 »

What improvements?  The improvement on that one play in the line's execution?

Fact of the matter is, Mendenhall's problems are mental.  His ball security is an issue, not because he fumbles all that much but because you can actually see guys jawing at him, that he's a fumbler, and I think the dude is thin-skinned.  I feel bad for him tbh; he'll never shake that rap, not in the league and not with the fans.

Three-down talent is hard to come by in the NFL, and it's worth riding until it's dead certain that the guy's problems are incurable. 

FWIW Finny I think Mendenhall is much better as a 25 touch guy than an a 15 touch guy.
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« Reply #21 on: Oct 13, 2011 at 08:37 »

Improvements in pass pro, certainly.  Huge, if limited (n=1).

And besides that one long rush, there were incremental improvements in run blocking.  It looked like the line was getting off the snap faster, more in synch, and getting some push, rather than being pushed back.  I can understand Mendenhall's insecurities, given the fact that 90% of the time there are defenders in the backfield with him.  Or the rushing lanes aren't merely tight, they're the size of pores. 

With the guys we have now, I still think Mendy is the guy you go to as the back-breaker, and Redman is the meat tenderizer.  Would also like to see Mendy used more in the passing game a la Rice. 
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« Reply #22 on: Oct 13, 2011 at 12:34 »

What improvement in running?

Mendenhall averages 3.0 YPC for the year.
Against Tennessee, Redman averaged 3.3 YPC.
Absent the freak play, Dwyer averaged 2.8 YPC.

There was no improvement in running the ball.
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« Reply #23 on: Oct 13, 2011 at 13:28 »

What improvement in running?

Mendenhall averages 3.0 YPC for the year.
Against Tennessee, Redman averaged 3.3 YPC.
Absent the freak play, Dwyer averaged 2.8 YPC.

There was no improvement in running the ball.

I think this improvement is what Finny was getting at.


And Redman did carve out positives where Mendy would have been stifled, IMO.

Statistically, there might not be much of a difference, but if RM was carryin' the rock against the Tits, he's nowhere near as effective.  He'd still be dancing behind the line instead of pushing the pile like Red.
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« Reply #24 on: Oct 13, 2011 at 14:13 »

There are several ways to argue this, but only once the OL gels and we see how the running game develops over the season can we tell what the Max Starks Effect has amounted to.  I don't see how you just throw out a 76 yard run even if it is a statistical outlier: it's not like the Counter 34 Pike is some exotic trick play, we run that fucker all the time, and then all of a sudden it works to perfection?  You can say it was better OL play, better speed to the hole by the back, or a complete defensive meltdown, but I haven't seen a canyon-sized lane like that from this OL in a long, long time. 

But there are plenty of stats we can dig into WRT the running game.  Low attempts came week 1 @ Balt. (16), obviously fell behind early and abandoned the run.  High came week 2 v. Seattle (35), opposite dynamic with the blowout.  League YPG this season is 111.2, and we've gone over that 3 of 5 games:  v. Seattle (123), @ Houston (118), and v. Tenn. (174).  Average attempts in those games was 30.3.  In the games where YPG was below league average, we ran an average 22.0 times for 66.5 YPG.

@ Balt.:  Steelers ran for +1.1 over Baltimore's seasonal average YPC against all other opponents (+36.3%).  Contextually not hard to explain, since the Ravens were in pass defense and the total rush yardage was 66 (57 from RBs).  Baltimore is 3rd in rush defense YPC.
Seattle: +0.49 over average YPC (+16.2%).   This was a nice effort, as Seattle's rush defense YPC is ranked 2nd.
@ Indy.: -2.03 under average YPC (-45.9%).  28 carries, to no effect.  Abysmal.
@ Hou.: +0.69 over average YPC (+14.8%).  Slightly better than average against the 24th ranked in terms of rush defense YPC. 
Tenn.: +2.99 over average YPC (+92.9%), or +0.41 (+14.9%) sans the Dwyer run.  Tennessee is 10th in rush defense YPC, so going the same-ish percentage over average YPC as the 24th best team is an improvement; counting the big run, +92.(% is a statement.

Overall, we're doing better against team rushing defenses than their average opponents, exceppting the Colts debacle.  I'd love to see how much of the yardage breakdown came as yards for loss in each of those games:  I suspect the yards for loss were way down against the Titans, credit both Redman and the line. 
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« Reply #25 on: Oct 13, 2011 at 18:44 »

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7098364/pittsburgh-steelers-rashard-mendenhall-hamstring-start-sunday-vs-jacksonville-jaguars

All will be revealed Sunday.  Unless the line regresses with Krusty back at RT.  Then nothing will be revealed.
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