Maximum Grilled Steelers Forum
Nov 21, 2014 at 13:40 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home   Forum   Help Calendar Media Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Week 6 - Oct. 13 - Pittsburgh @ NY Jets  (Read 3772 times)
otismalibu
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 7055
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,917



« on: Oct 08, 2013 at 11:28 »

How does the Falcons O-line compare to the Steelers O-line?

This may be Ben's injury week.
Logged
aj_law
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5538
Offline Offline

Posts: 15,173


« Reply #1 on: Oct 08, 2013 at 11:36 »

LOL @ Steelers being a road favorite to anybody (OK, @Jax might be a pick 'em) right now.

They haven't covered ATS yet this year.  This is their week, right?  Uhhhh, right??
Logged

We suck because our drafts have been THE SUCK.
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12195
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,377



« Reply #2 on: Oct 08, 2013 at 14:31 »

We know Smoky Adams was being benched for Beachum or Levi, but Tomlin has also demoted Ziggy and is going to give Heyward a shot at LDE.

We'll see with the carousel of bobos on the OL, but I always liked Heyward and thought Hood was an odd pick for the position, maybe more of a 4-3 DT.  In fact, I'd consider using Hood in rotations:  first, try a 40 front once in a damned while, with Heyward-Hood-Mac-Keisel; second, try Hood at NT and Mac at RDE to spell Keisel - I think Hood would do better anchoring against the run, and Mac would get better penetration off the edge, so this might be a 3rd down rotation.
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
jonzr
Asst. VP, Jonzring
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 11364
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,823


Have a cup o' joe.


WWW
« Reply #3 on: Oct 08, 2013 at 17:05 »

... first, try a 40 front once in a damned while ...

Right!?
Logged

"I like David Bowie, he was always my favorite member of Tin Machine."
- Rodney Anonymous

It's a Steeler Nation
jonzr
Asst. VP, Jonzring
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 11364
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,823


Have a cup o' joe.


WWW
« Reply #4 on: Oct 09, 2013 at 13:21 »

Over/under on Big Ben turnovers (interception or fumble):  2.5

I'm taking the over.

Logged

"I like David Bowie, he was always my favorite member of Tin Machine."
- Rodney Anonymous

It's a Steeler Nation
aj_law
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5538
Offline Offline

Posts: 15,173


« Reply #5 on: Oct 09, 2013 at 14:12 »

Over/under on Big Ben turnovers (interception or fumble):  2.5

I'm taking the over.

That's the big thing this weekend.

I expect them to continue to play like shit, but the shooting themselves in the foot has to stop. 

Smith's a rook.  Make him make the mistakes.  Don't help him out by turning it over.

NY also has a pretty good, young front seven.  #7 can't take forever back there to make a decision.  Exploit the weak part of their defense (secondary).

Historically, ****ie usually makes rookie QB's heads spin.  Not so sure he'll be able to accomplish that feat with this group.  Gotta get pressure on Smith, somehow, someway...
Logged

We suck because our drafts have been THE SUCK.
aj_law
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5538
Offline Offline

Posts: 15,173


« Reply #6 on: Oct 09, 2013 at 14:44 »

Not Brown...not Adams...Beachum to start at LT.

Hopefully BR's flak jacket still fits.  He gonna need it.
Logged

We suck because our drafts have been THE SUCK.
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12195
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,377



« Reply #7 on: Oct 10, 2013 at 10:09 »

Not Brown...not Adams...Beachum to start at LT.

Hopefully BR's flak jacket still fits.  He gonna need it.


We'll see.  I remember thinking Beachum wasn't NFL material when we took him, but he acquitted himself well (or well enough) in spot duty.  I think he's a solid backup at both OG spots and maybe RT.  LT is a whole other creature, though.  From an old Finny draft guide on OTs:

Quote
Generally, OTs need to be 6’5” or taller, with shorter OTs plugged in at OG.  Marvel Smith was a shade under 6’5”, for a point of comparison.  I’ve seen collegiate tackles listed at 6’3” on the NFLDS OT lists, and I’ve moved them to my OG lists.  For LT, you cannot be slow and be effective.  Period.  That means the much-despised Indy combine 40 time actually makes a difference in how quickly a big guy on the edge can kick out.  My arbitrary numbers are 5.20 as potentially competent LT, and under 5.10 for possible elite LT.  The player must obviously have skills – the ability to use his hands properly, to bend and use leverage, to understand blocking schemes – but players who can’t trot the 40 in under 5.20 seconds start to suggest RT only. 


At the time, I believe I just casually noticed the correlation between 40 and LT success, but let's look and see if that's true.  I'd say the following are the best 10 LTs in the league (when healthy):

1. Duane Brown - 5.03-5.07 40 time; a little shorter than my guidelines at 6'4", but as noted height is not the prime driver.
2. Joe Staley - 4.79; 6'6"
3. Russel Okung - 5.18; 6'5"
4. Joe Thomas - 4.92; 6'7"
5. Ryan Clady - 5.18; 6'6"
6. Andrew Whitworth - 5.16; 6'7"
7. Michael Roos - 5.15-5.30; 6'7"
8. Eugene Monroe - 5.18' 6'5"
9. Trent Williams - 4.88; 6'5"
10. Nate Solder - 5.05; 6'8"

Summary:  10/10 LTs clocked times <5.20 (combine or school workout); 9/10 meet frame requirement of 6'5" or taller.  I'll add another, which I had previously never used because tall guys with long arms aren't going to rock the bench press:  20+ reps at 225#.  I noticed that of these LTs, none repped more than 30 (Thomas got to 28), but 9/10 repped more than 20 (Roos came in at 19).

So, let's compare.

Kelvin Beachum - 5.44; 6'2"; 19 reps.  Small and weak are really sideshows to how slow Beachum is.  IMO, destines to fail.  Of course, I thought the same of him at OG, but as they say, apples to oranges, especially kicking out to the blind side.
Mike Adams - 5.40; 6'7"; 19 reps.  Hey, he's tall.  I think my comments on Adams at draft time were along the lines of slow, weak, smokes pot, so pass.  Getting off the weed didn't suddenly make Mikey fast though.
Marcus Gilbert - 5.41; 6'6"; 30 reps.  Third of three without foot speed.  Has some weight room strength, not sure I've seen it translate to the field.  Seems to be RT-only.

WRT to LT, destined to fail.

Oh wait, we also have:

Levi Brown - 5.40; 6'6"; 31 reps.  Thus continuing our penchant for abysmally slow LTs.  Or, what the rest of the league refer to as RTs.  Workout numbers suggest he is essentially Marcus Gilbert, which is what game film suggests as well. 

Stocked to the gills with RTs, no LT anywhere to be found.  There are some great WR candidates in the top 10 of the 2014 draft, but I would suggest we consider LT.  For once.  FFS.  Just once.
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
aj_law
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5538
Offline Offline

Posts: 15,173


« Reply #8 on: Oct 10, 2013 at 11:17 »

Not Brown...not Adams...Beachum to start at LT.

Hopefully BR's flak jacket still fits.  He gonna need it.


We'll see.  I remember thinking Beachum wasn't NFL material when we took him, but he acquitted himself well (or well enough) in spot duty.  I think he's a solid backup at both OG spots and maybe RT.  LT is a whole other creature, though.  From an old Finny draft guide on OTs:

Quote
Generally, OTs need to be 6’5” or taller, with shorter OTs plugged in at OG.  Marvel Smith was a shade under 6’5”, for a point of comparison.  I’ve seen collegiate tackles listed at 6’3” on the NFLDS OT lists, and I’ve moved them to my OG lists.  For LT, you cannot be slow and be effective.  Period.  That means the much-despised Indy combine 40 time actually makes a difference in how quickly a big guy on the edge can kick out.  My arbitrary numbers are 5.20 as potentially competent LT, and under 5.10 for possible elite LT.  The player must obviously have skills – the ability to use his hands properly, to bend and use leverage, to understand blocking schemes – but players who can’t trot the 40 in under 5.20 seconds start to suggest RT only. 


At the time, I believe I just casually noticed the correlation between 40 and LT success, but let's look and see if that's true.  I'd say the following are the best 10 LTs in the league (when healthy):

1. Duane Brown - 5.03-5.07 40 time; a little shorter than my guidelines at 6'4", but as noted height is not the prime driver.
2. Joe Staley - 4.79; 6'6"
3. Russel Okung - 5.18; 6'5"
4. Joe Thomas - 4.92; 6'7"
5. Ryan Clady - 5.18; 6'6"
6. Andrew Whitworth - 5.16; 6'7"
7. Michael Roos - 5.15-5.30; 6'7"
8. Eugene Monroe - 5.18' 6'5"
9. Trent Williams - 4.88; 6'5"
10. Nate Solder - 5.05; 6'8"

Summary:  10/10 LTs clocked times <5.20 (combine or school workout); 9/10 meet frame requirement of 6'5" or taller.  I'll add another, which I had previously never used because tall guys with long arms aren't going to rock the bench press:  20+ reps at 225#.  I noticed that of these LTs, none repped more than 30 (Thomas got to 28), but 9/10 repped more than 20 (Roos came in at 19).

So, let's compare.

Kelvin Beachum - 5.44; 6'2"; 19 reps.  Small and weak are really sideshows to how slow Beachum is.  IMO, destines to fail.  Of course, I thought the same of him at OG, but as they say, apples to oranges, especially kicking out to the blind side.
Mike Adams - 5.40; 6'7"; 19 reps.  Hey, he's tall.  I think my comments on Adams at draft time were along the lines of slow, weak, smokes pot, so pass.  Getting off the weed didn't suddenly make Mikey fast though.
Marcus Gilbert - 5.41; 6'6"; 30 reps.  Third of three without foot speed.  Has some weight room strength, not sure I've seen it translate to the field.  Seems to be RT-only.

WRT to LT, destined to fail.

Oh wait, we also have:

Levi Brown - 5.40; 6'6"; 31 reps.  Thus continuing our penchant for abysmally slow LTs.  Or, what the rest of the league refer to as RTs.  Workout numbers suggest he is essentially Marcus Gilbert, which is what game film suggests as well. 

Stocked to the gills with RTs, no LT anywhere to be found.  There are some great WR candidates in the top 10 of the 2014 draft, but I would suggest we consider LT.  For once.  FFS.  Just once.


Somewhere, Penso's cursor is hovering over the "delete" button.

Remember those offseason rumors about the Steelers "being in the mix" for Jake Long?  Yeah, the Rams probably overpaid for a guy that's underperformed where he was drafted, but he'd be light years better than anybody they've currently got.  Cap issues aside, obv.
Logged

We suck because our drafts have been THE SUCK.
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12195
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,377



« Reply #9 on: Oct 10, 2013 at 13:09 »

Penso's gonna be thrilled to delete my post over in the Darft section then.

Seriously, if some M-F cube cowboy can figure out that there's a DIRECT FUCKING CORRELATION BETWEEN BEING SLOW AND FLUNKING AT LT, why can't Colbert?  It would almost seem to be common sense, no?  We're not finding the fucking Higgs boson, people, just some big uglies who can shuffle their feet and bring a little nasty to the table.

Have a feeling we won't be able to contain the Jets' TE Cumberland, Stephen Hill looks like a guy who could throw trouble our way, and I can see the defense making hash of our OL (again), especially Wilkerson.  For all the negatives over Geno pre-draft, the kid is gaining confidence and has an arm.

Gonna have to go Jets on this one, 26-23.
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
aj_law
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5538
Offline Offline

Posts: 15,173


« Reply #10 on: Oct 10, 2013 at 14:33 »

Penso's gonna be thrilled to delete my post over in the Darft section then.

Seriously, if some M-F cube cowboy can figure out that there's a DIRECT FUCKING CORRELATION BETWEEN BEING SLOW AND FLUNKING AT LT, why can't Colbert?  It would almost seem to be common sense, no?  We're not finding the fucking Higgs boson, people, just some big uglies who can shuffle their feet and bring a little nasty to the table.

Starting a petition to change Finman's undertitle to "THEE MF'ing Cube Cowboy."
Logged

We suck because our drafts have been THE SUCK.
jonzr
Asst. VP, Jonzring
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 11364
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,823


Have a cup o' joe.


WWW
« Reply #11 on: Oct 13, 2013 at 12:05 »

Three and out.  Sweet.
Logged

"I like David Bowie, he was always my favorite member of Tin Machine."
- Rodney Anonymous

It's a Steeler Nation
pensodyssey
Halfsharkalligator halfman.
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 8123
Online Online

Posts: 9,749



« Reply #12 on: Oct 13, 2013 at 12:05 »

Really creative play calling to start.
Logged

A shabby Charlie Brown.
pensodyssey
Halfsharkalligator halfman.
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 8123
Online Online

Posts: 9,749



« Reply #13 on: Oct 13, 2013 at 12:14 »

We are fucking horrible.
Logged

A shabby Charlie Brown.
jonzr
Asst. VP, Jonzring
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 11364
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,823


Have a cup o' joe.


WWW
« Reply #14 on: Oct 13, 2013 at 12:15 »

And three and out again.  Sweet.
Logged

"I like David Bowie, he was always my favorite member of Tin Machine."
- Rodney Anonymous

It's a Steeler Nation
jonzr
Asst. VP, Jonzring
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 11364
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,823


Have a cup o' joe.


WWW
« Reply #15 on: Oct 13, 2013 at 13:06 »

I'm watching GB @ BAL, the Ratties just got stuffed on 4th and goal, that's always enjoyable.
Logged

"I like David Bowie, he was always my favorite member of Tin Machine."
- Rodney Anonymous

It's a Steeler Nation
jonzr
Asst. VP, Jonzring
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 11364
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,823


Have a cup o' joe.


WWW
« Reply #16 on: Oct 13, 2013 at 13:16 »

Wow, a 2 FG lead!  Woooohooooo!  Geez.
Logged

"I like David Bowie, he was always my favorite member of Tin Machine."
- Rodney Anonymous

It's a Steeler Nation
pensodyssey
Halfsharkalligator halfman.
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 8123
Online Online

Posts: 9,749



« Reply #17 on: Oct 13, 2013 at 13:54 »

Did Polamalu break Hill?  Haven't seen him in the 2nd half.
Logged

A shabby Charlie Brown.
pensodyssey
Halfsharkalligator halfman.
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 8123
Online Online

Posts: 9,749



« Reply #18 on: Oct 13, 2013 at 14:06 »

Nope.  There he is.
Logged

A shabby Charlie Brown.
pensodyssey
Halfsharkalligator halfman.
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 8123
Online Online

Posts: 9,749



« Reply #19 on: Oct 13, 2013 at 14:19 »

If I hear Cowher say "Kick the field goal" one more time I'm'a bjork.
Logged

A shabby Charlie Brown.
jonzr
Asst. VP, Jonzring
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 11364
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,823


Have a cup o' joe.


WWW
« Reply #20 on: Oct 13, 2013 at 14:26 »

That series of plays down near the goal was farcical.
Logged

"I like David Bowie, he was always my favorite member of Tin Machine."
- Rodney Anonymous

It's a Steeler Nation
jonzr
Asst. VP, Jonzring
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 11364
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,823


Have a cup o' joe.


WWW
« Reply #21 on: Oct 13, 2013 at 14:27 »

If I hear Cowher say "Kick the field goal" one more time I'm'a bjork.

Oh yeah, I had forgot he'd be in the TV booth.  I'm listening to the radio feed with the occasional RedZone Channel augmentation.  Well, it ain't pretty, but it's  19-6 and I'll take it.
Logged

"I like David Bowie, he was always my favorite member of Tin Machine."
- Rodney Anonymous

It's a Steeler Nation
pensodyssey
Halfsharkalligator halfman.
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 8123
Online Online

Posts: 9,749



« Reply #22 on: Oct 13, 2013 at 14:56 »

C'mon Beefaloes!
Logged

A shabby Charlie Brown.
jonzr
Asst. VP, Jonzring
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 11364
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,823


Have a cup o' joe.


WWW
« Reply #23 on: Oct 13, 2013 at 15:01 »

Wow, they're actually gonna win this thing!  +2 TO margin.
Logged

"I like David Bowie, he was always my favorite member of Tin Machine."
- Rodney Anonymous

It's a Steeler Nation
Preacherman0
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5808
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,846



WWW
« Reply #24 on: Oct 13, 2013 at 15:06 »

Amazing what happens when you create turnovers rather than making them.

Is it crazy to think that Dwyer is not that bad of a running back?
Logged

We have traded Christ for the religion of Christianity.
jonzr
Asst. VP, Jonzring
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 11364
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,823


Have a cup o' joe.


WWW
« Reply #25 on: Oct 13, 2013 at 15:23 »

BAL and CLE lost but CIN just won in OT.  Dwyer is a backup I guess.  Nobody was in a hurry to sign him when he was a FA.
Logged

"I like David Bowie, he was always my favorite member of Tin Machine."
- Rodney Anonymous

It's a Steeler Nation
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12195
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,377



« Reply #26 on: Oct 13, 2013 at 17:10 »

Amazing what happens when you create turnovers rather than making them.

Is it crazy to think that Dwyer is not that bad of a running back?

Yes, and yes.
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12195
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,377



« Reply #27 on: Oct 13, 2013 at 17:24 »

As noted at length elsewhere, we have no LT.  Beachum was owned and abused, as was Gilbert, although both settled down some once we got some momentum.  There is zero push up the middle on power runs.  And zero run stoppage in the middle of the DL.  Is it my imagination or was the Heyward-Hood bookend combo the best tried this year?  Nothing against the Beard.  

Gay was looking to jump routes multiple times.  Missed; but I haven't seen our DBs do that much at all this year, so, good on him.  Clark shoulda had two, and the pressure was getting us opportunities.  Vince Williams had some hits and misses, but I like his ability to diagnose and close on the ball.  We'll see.  

Refereeing was atrocious on that 3rd FG:  Antonio Cromartie, who was barnacling AB all day long, basically punched him in the facemask before the bobbled ball that shoulda been a TD: no call on that, of course, just good defense, right?  And the late hit on Ben, if that were Beardy, Goodell would have had the guy burned at the stake and would have been sopping Beardy's parched lips with a cold towel.  Some other BS calls I can't remember.  

I'll take a win.  Feel better if we can actually beat the Ravens, who appear very beatable, next week.  Since I focused all week on negatives, gonna stay on the positive tip:

1. Ben running the ball.  I think injuries have made him gun-shy, but he can still scramble and lower the boom on DBs.
2. Bell.  I think he's going to keep getting better.   Nice hands in the pass game, not enough holes to exploit, but came back from the foot injury and showed some grit and determination.  I like this kid.
3. Gay.  Whipping-boy, but showing some instincts to go for the pick.
4. Pola.  Hasn't had a ton of wow plays or turnovers, but he's flying around, hitting guys hard, looking like the Troy of old.
5. AB.  AB is a fucking monster.
6. Sanders.  Did NOT drop the ball.  If he can keep doing this while AB does his thing, we have a potent offense.
7. Haley.  A lot of same old same old, but on that TD and a few other calls, he was looking downfield.  Plus the trickery with AB tossing showed that Haley's not just stuck in a box.  Honestly, I don't think Haley's the major part of the problem.
8. Swiss Ham.  Money.
9. Heath.  Money, all damned day long.  He's lost some speed?  Really?  Looked pretty fucking chippy and zippy to these old eyes.
10. Heyward.  Some flashes from Woodley, Worilds, Jarvis, and even Ziggy, but IMO Heyward was really pushing the pocket and getting some pressure on the QB, helping to lead to incompletions and turnovers.  I want to see more.  More of this.
« Last Edit: Oct 15, 2013 at 06:51 by Finnegans Wake » Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
Brinker
Lennar Homes Consultant
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 2858
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,785


Mr Jack


WWW
« Reply #28 on: Oct 14, 2013 at 16:59 »

Ok I can now come back to MGS. Nice road win.
Logged

"He'll just smile and be cordial out there. Then he'll kill you."
--Aaron Smith, Defensive Lineman, on Troy Polamulu
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal
| Sitemap
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!