Maximum Grilled Steelers Forum
Aug 28, 2014 at 20:11 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home   Forum   Help Calendar Media Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Presumptuous  (Read 2404 times)
aj_law
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5532
Offline Offline

Posts: 15,006


« on: Dec 06, 2013 at 15:17 »

'04 QB class "over the hill?"
Logged

We suck because our drafts have been THE SUCK.
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12189
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,234



« Reply #1 on: Dec 06, 2013 at 15:32 »



Is brilliant, except for one... tiny... detail...

IS ASININE!  IS STUPIDEST ARTICLE HAVE EVER READ IN ENTIRE LIFE!  KILL KILL KILL!

Ben was on pace for a career best season last year before getting injured.  This year, he's even better, despite the ongoing bullshit with no running game, an offensive line that's been through a fucking chipper, and another season of bullshit drops from Manny Sanders (carrying on his and Wallace's bullshit drops from last year).

I don't know what the fuck is going on with Eli, but Livers looks crisp, and the issue is mostly surrounding cast.  I'd still take Ben (and Livers, and Eli will likely bounce back too) ahead of purdnear everyone except a very small few, and it's a stupid thing to even say because if you could swap Ben for Brees or Petunia straight up, for eggs ham pull, suddenly they wouldn't have all their beloved weapons and they'd have to play in the cold outdoors with their pampered little Nancy arms; or Brady, that fucking twat, he'd last a minute behind this line; Rodgers you could make a case for, but the case might be that he's in some ways better, some ways not, but basically you're getting a viable younger elite QB; etc. 

None of these guys are done.  Period.  They need better talent around them.  Period. 
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
Preacherman0
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5808
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,795



WWW
« Reply #2 on: Dec 08, 2013 at 15:15 »

Tell us how you really feel, Finny?  Wink

Classic overreaction by a guy who needs an article.

I would actually love to see how Manning, Brady or Brees would perform if they had to play with the dung-piles that Eli & Ben have around them.

Logged

We have traded Christ for the religion of Christianity.
aj_law
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5532
Offline Offline

Posts: 15,006


« Reply #3 on: Dec 09, 2013 at 14:56 »

I would actually love to see how Manning, Brady or Brees would perform if they had to play with the dung-piles that Eli & Ben have around them.

*heaves*

*heaves*

*sigh*

Damnit...Faaaaaar be it from me to be a Beardy apologist, but...have you checked who they're fielding each week?

Outside of Gronk, their skill positions are crap.  Vereen looks decent; might develop into something.  Same I guess might be said for Thompkins.  Amendola has been a non-factor all year.  Gronkowski has run over more pornstar ass than DBs this season.  Overall, how many of those guys would you rather have over Pittsburgh's?  Nobody even close to AB on that squad.  Edelman?  Aaron Dobson?  Castoffs.  Complete chicken shit.  Bell.  AB.  Miller.  All solid in comparison.  I'll even take an annoyingly inconsistent Sanders; an "over the hill" Cotchery; or a green Wheaton instead of their wide guys.

Their offensive line has two first rounders.  The rest are UDFAs and a 5th rounder.  I'd agree that their group is probably better than the Steelers front five, but it's not like they're among the league's best or anything.  Their success comes from their system and tempo.  Asschin isn't running around trying to extend plays.  He's taking 1, 3 or 5 steps and releasing.  All rhythm based.  IMO, it's similar to the Saints offense except with Grade B personnel in comparison.

I can bash those tea baggers for a lot of things...a lot, but they definitely don't have a wonderment of talent on offense.  Of the top 5 or 6 QBs (maybe even more) in the league, Pretty Boy has probably done more with less than all of them.

*reaches for bucket*

*VOMITS*
Logged

We suck because our drafts have been THE SUCK.
Preacherman0
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5808
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,795



WWW
« Reply #4 on: Dec 16, 2013 at 13:20 »

Quote
Damnit...Faaaaaar be it from me to be a Beardy apologist, but...have you checked who they're fielding each week?

No, no, I'm not singing the praises of Danny Amendola here. I'm talking about the one piece that the Pastries have always seemed to hold together, even as they've let go of receiving talent. And that's the offensive line.

However they've done it, they always manage to produce a group that keeps Brady standing. And even if they're not as good as years past, Brady certainly hasn't taken the residual beating that Ben has. Also, allowing Brady to have significant say-so in the offense has helped to compensate for any oline shortfalls. As we said back in the Arians days, keeping the defense off-balance with no huddle helps to make up for mediocre blockers.

I'm not saying that Ben is as cerebral as Brady; certainly, Ben's un-willingness to get rid of the ball hurts him. But he's always begged to use the no-huddle, and it usually seems to be effective every time they let him do it. Just maybe he knows what he's doing back there.
Logged

We have traded Christ for the religion of Christianity.
aj_law
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5532
Offline Offline

Posts: 15,006


« Reply #5 on: Dec 16, 2013 at 13:49 »

I see what you're saying, P.  I'm just not sure I completely agree that their line is that much better.  Brady sure took a beating against the Phish yesterday...

I think a lot goes back to the system and the type of player that's playing QB.  Beardy gets rid of it...fast.  Ben likes to hold onto it and make the big, splashy play.  It's a different approach from "behind the helmet."
Logged

We suck because our drafts have been THE SUCK.
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12189
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,234



« Reply #6 on: Dec 16, 2013 at 15:07 »

Ben's got a better QB rating this year than Brady, better completion %, and the two are virtually tied in yardage.  Ben's 25-11 TD-INT, Brady is 23-10.

Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
kluisi61
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 2769
Offline Offline

Posts: 7,066



« Reply #7 on: Dec 16, 2013 at 15:17 »

Ben's got a better QB rating this year than Brady, better completion %, and the two are virtually tied in yardage.  Ben's 25-11 TD-INT, Brady is 23-10.



Most importantly though, Brady is 10-4 and Ben is 6-8. I think trading Brady for any other QB in the league puts the Pats closer to 6-8 than 10-4 (if not worse). I wouldn't trade the rest of the Steeler's offense for the rest of the Pat's offense straight up. I said if Brady managed to do what he's done this year after what they lost in the offseason (namely every weapon he had last year), then I would give all the credit to Brady. He did...and I do.
Logged

OK Chris. Now that we have practiced kissing and cuddling, we'll practice eating out...at a fancy restaurant.

 - Lois Griffin

-----------------

Goal Line Blitz - Football player and team simulator...Very Fun.

Fallen Sword - MMORPG that is very fun. No ads and it's free.

Preacherman0
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5808
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,795



WWW
« Reply #8 on: Dec 16, 2013 at 21:40 »

Quote
He did...and I do.

And in the "words" of AJ...

*VOMIT*

The truth is sometimes sickening.
Logged

We have traded Christ for the religion of Christianity.
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12189
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,234



« Reply #9 on: Dec 17, 2013 at 10:05 »

Much as I hate to say it, coaching has to be considered here.  Early season woes are on Tomlin; I've also "credited" Tomlin for some of the "turnaround."  (Although, playing the way we expect the Steelers should play is not something I should really need to slow clap Tomlin for.)

Belichick is much better than Tomlin at making adjustments (in-game, in-season), at having his squad crisp and prepared (pre-season, game one onward), and apparently too personnel issues (losses of Killer, Gronk, Wilfork; the general watering down of the receiving squad).

Ben + Belichick + 2013 Pats offense > Brady + Tomlin + 2013 Steelers offense

Steelers WR > Pats WR

Face it, the marriage of Brady and Belichick is one of those rare alignments in football (cf. Montana-Walsh; would Montana have succeeded in another franchise, or Walsh with another QB?).  How did Belichick do in Cleveland?  Or with Bledsoe?  Brady could have been an abject failure in any number of franchises; I think Ben would have had success almost anywhere, with his physical skills.  (Peyton had a good relationship with Dungy, and now with Fox, but he too would have had success anywhere, with his skill set.)

Let's play the Newt game and re-write history:  Bledsoe returns to action in the 2001 season AFCC vs. Pittsburgh, and ...  Belichick decides to hand the starter job back to him.  Brady is traded to (fill in another team).  How does Brady do?  2002 NFL draft, the Houston Texans decide to take Brady as QB and draft Julius Peppers in their inaugural draft (instead of David Carr).  Brady is sacked 45 times a season and soon bounces around as a journeyman backup. 

The Lions drafted Harrington.  How would Brady have done as a Lion?  My guess:  failure.

How about the Redskins taking Brady in trade instead of Patrick Ramsey?  LOL.

Arizona, taking Brady instead of drafting Josh McCown?  I'm sure it would have been a walk in the freakin' park.

Those were the 2002 R1 QBs.  Jax took David Garrard, who eventually took over the starting job.  Do we envision Brady as having awesome success under Del Rio, as opposed to Belichick?

Keep going?  Or point made?
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
aj_law
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5532
Offline Offline

Posts: 15,006


« Reply #10 on: Dec 17, 2013 at 10:52 »

I'm not sure I understand.  Are you saying the coach makes the QB?  I've always believed that the QB makes the coach. 

Not trying to detract from what Mr. Personality has accomplished as HC of the Pastries, but I don't think he accomplishes a fraction of it without #12.
Logged

We suck because our drafts have been THE SUCK.
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12189
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,234



« Reply #11 on: Dec 17, 2013 at 12:32 »

I'm not sure I understand.  Are you saying the coach makes the QB?  I've always believed that the QB makes the coach. 

Not trying to detract from what Mr. Personality has accomplished as HC of the Pastries, but I don't think he accomplishes a fraction of it without #12.

I think this is one situation where their strengths dovetail just about perfectly.  What Belichick wants in a QB, Brady has.  I think Brady would have failed as a starter for a lot of teams in this league, and Belichick could have failed as HC had Brady not come along.  Perfect storm.  Don't think the QB makes the coach or vice versa; it's always a two-way interaction. 
Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
otismalibu
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 7052
Online Online

Posts: 10,882



« Reply #12 on: Dec 17, 2013 at 12:48 »

What's odd is that BB doesn't even seem to pay attention to the offense. How many OCs has Brady had? I guess Brady probably is the OC.

That team may shit the bed for a quarter or sometimes a half, but how often do they piss away an entire game?

Logged
Finnegans Wake
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 12189
Offline Offline

Posts: 22,234



« Reply #13 on: Dec 17, 2013 at 14:46 »

What's odd is that BB doesn't even seem to pay attention to the offense. How many OCs has Brady had? I guess Brady probably is the OC.

That team may shit the bed for a quarter or sometimes a half, but how often do they piss away an entire game?


Belichick cut his teeth as a defensive coordinator, but he clearly had a vision of what he wanted from the offense, and the carousel of OCs has run it.  I don't think of any of them as being brilliant offensive minds.  McDaniels and Weis, their time away from the Pats was unremarkable at best.  O'Brien has done a solid job of righting the PSU ship, but I still think Belichick implemented a certain philosophy and then the OCs carried it out.

Think of the shift in offensive philosophy from 2001 to the present:  then, you needed a strong running game, a balanced game, to ensure defenses couldn't zero in on the pass; Belichick basically said No, you don't.  The Colts, after Edgerrin James left, basically agreed with this and said fuck it all.  Belichick went one further.  He said, I can succeed with a bunch of B-list WR talent.  Sure, he brought in Randy Moss and Chad Ocho Cinco, with varying degrees of success, but well after both had seen their peak years:  we've even talked about how conceited Belichick was in thinking he could rehab every basket case in the NFL (Haynesworth).  The offense evolved from short, high-percentage passing to more wide open, from smallish WRs to again going against the grain and loading up on big TE who could catch.  And it should be obvious to anyone who's hated the Pats through the Brady era that there's a very high degree of discipline to that offense. 

So yeah, the offense has Belichick's imprint all over it, from the various against-the-grain conceits to the anal-to-the-nth degree discipline of execution.  Brady may have been the perfect QB to run it, but he might not have had the same degree of success under other coaches, if he had ever gotten the chance to start at all.  JMO.

Logged

Out of my mind on Saturday night...
aj_law
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 5532
Offline Offline

Posts: 15,006


« Reply #14 on: Dec 18, 2013 at 15:42 »

And it should be obvious to anyone who's hated the Pats through the Brady era that there's a very high degree of discipline to that offense. 

So yeah, the offense has Belichick's imprint all over it, from the various against-the-grain conceits to the anal-to-the-nth degree discipline of execution.

They're all about playing "mistake free" ball...in all 3 phases.  It's their #1 priority.  Truthfully, it should be high on every team's priority list, but you get the sense that for most teams, it's just lip service.

Discipline.
Discipline.
Discipline.

Don't turn it over.
Don't commit stupid penalties.
Don't make mistakes.
Execute your assignments to perfection.

Having guys that perform everything damn close to perfection > raw athletic talent

Doesn't hurt to stumble onto one of the best QBs of our generation in the process too.  We'll see how well he does as HC when Beardy retires.  If he's as much of a genius as everybody gives him credit for, he'll retire shortly after Asschin hangs 'em up.
Logged

We suck because our drafts have been THE SUCK.
jonzr
Asst. VP, Jonzring
Global Moderator
Old School Member
*****

Karma: 11361
Online Online

Posts: 11,410


Have a cup o' joe.


WWW
« Reply #15 on: Dec 22, 2013 at 14:51 »

If he's as much of a genius as everybody gives him credit for, he'll retire shortly after Asschin hangs 'em up.

If nothing else, it would show a rare level of self-awareness.
Logged

"I like David Bowie, he was always my favorite member of Tin Machine."
- Rodney Anonymous

It's a Steeler Nation
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal
| Sitemap
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!